Islam is now our interfaith priority: all the same, debate on doctrine is futile

Out of interest, Mr Oddie, what are the “underlying prejudices” of the National Catholic Reporter?

if as Christians we believe the fullness of the Truth Is in Jesus, and Salvation only to be found in Him and His Cross, then it is manifestly a dereliction of duty for the Church not to present this Truth, with grace and in love to all muslims in UK and elsewhere; there has to be dialogue: ie to share Jesus, the question is: why is the Church seemingly slow and reluctant to do this? (evangelisation is an imperative)

NCR is generally considered a bastion for progressive, Catholic thought.

I would agree that it's fairly pointless debating with Muslims about religion – I've done a little of it myself both in person and on the Internet, and my experience is that you don't get very far even if you're only defending your own faith. You also have to be very careful not to give offense which you can easily do. I do agree that Christians and Muslims have some common interests, especially in opposing militant secularism that wants to drive all expression of religion out of the public sphere – and there we can cooperate in facing down a common opponent.

I would like to make a correction in my comment: Please read ” If you don't take care or IF YOU remain a passive spectator…”

Of course you cannot lump together sunni and shia let alone the different schools within those two families of Islam. We do share not only the same planet but also the same country and often the same city with all of these people and we must try and seek peaceful and positive coexistence just as we share the same planet with orthodox, reformed and ultra-orthodox rabbis . Whatever wing of catholicism you find yourself on I do urge you to read the highly positive and well thought out article in the National Catholic Reporter rather than a blog on a blog with its very different message.

Perhaps you should try looking at the Qur'an which all Muslims have in common and believe literally. The Qur'an tells Muslims to fight us (and terrorize us until we accept Islam. It also denies the Divine Trinity, the Crucifixion, it denies Jesus is the Son of God Who is God and Lord. It calls us sinners and blasphemers for doing this and that we will be sent to hellfire for doing so, however, the truth Jesus is the Son of God Who is God and Lord, Who did suffer and die on the Cross and rise from the dead. It is God the Father Who tells us to worship His divine Son and the Holy Trinity is true. I have sent a lot of these Qur'anic quotes to show I am not lying to Mr. Oddie.

Perhaps you should look at what Our divine Saviour tells you not a lot of liberal heretics since Vatican II.
Our Lord not only tells us many people will believe what they are doing is for God when they kill Christians but it will not be as they do not know Him, no-one who denies the Son has God the Father and vice versa (1 St. Jn:2.22-23) but also anyone who either denies Our Saviour's divinity or incarnation comes from the AntiChrist (1 St. Jn:4.3).

I disagree and our dialogue is concluded. The duty of the true follower of Jesus is to call all men, women and children to turn in faith to Christ, repent and be baptized – those who refuse to believe in Our Lord will be condemned (St. Mk:16.16). God the Father speaks through His divine Son (Heb:1.2) Who is the Way, the Truth and the Life (St. Jn:14.6).

I do not believe for a second that Islamic leaders want anything to do with Catholics, in the sense of these daft inter-faith dialogues. I don't think the Muslim community – that is, the truly religiously observant community – want to integrate with us at all.

I once found myself standing beside a Muslim couple in Glasgow, at an outdoor display of some artwork; the woman was covered from head to toe and when I commented on casually on the display, she immediately turned the baby buggy around and, with her husband, walked quickly off. They are definitely not into talking with people like me and I tend not to think it's personal.

We're now in the ridiculous situation where we have priests writing letters to the press in defence of Islam (as in a recent edition of the Scottish Catholic Observer), while remaining silent when Catholicism is under attack. Unbelievable.

Christ's final words on this earth were an instruction to His Church to go out and evangelise, baptising in the name of the one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

When that's done, there will be no need for inter-faith dialogue. Get a grip.

The only solution is evangelization of muslims – a difficult task to be sure.

Dialogue is very much useless simply because of the Islamic doctrine of taqiyaa which permits muslims to lie to non-muslims about their faith.

This raises an important dilemma – how do you talk to Muslims without them frothing at the mouth?

It is important, I think, to consider that Islam is somehwat rational but not with respect to God, obviously, but rather the tribal politics of 7th Century Arabia.

I think the way to do it is truth-telling about Islam. Present the facts about Islam to individual muslims and let them see the truth about their religion. I encourage everyone to read about Mohammed himself, then something starts to become clear that Al-Qaeda and other similar groups are very close in emulating the life of Mohammed.

As to the question of finding common ground with muslims for countering secularism, there is some validity there, but I think that one should examine the history of Islam and see quite clearly that the Jews and Christians of Arabia made a bum-deal with Mohammed and his followers and for it they were expelled from the Arabian Peninsula or they were massacred like the Banu Qurayza, so on that front their should be caution. I think the goal is purifying secularism, or achieving as BXVI calls it “a healthy secularism” not eliminating it. The Islamic political goal is Islam in control of the state, so once again caution.

Christopher Hitchens' article can be read here:
'Why the suicide killers chose September 11' ('The Guardian': 3 October 2001):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/03/september11.usa2

Like the Pope, William Oddie gets to the heart of the matter – Christianity believes that God is rational and Islam just doesn't. This is the point! This is the point! This is the point! Some people in the West and in the Church just don't get it.

A few weeks ago driving out of Jakarta – in the world's most populous Muslim nation – I spoke with a friend who is a devout Muslim. “Do you ever question anything in the Koran?” He looked at me as if I was from 'another planet'. Of course nwe don't – it is direct from God. There is nothing to question.

Of course they do. There are live chat shows on televison in Egypt where people phone in with queries.

“I was just reciting (not the word) my prayers, ” asks one woman, “and I looked out the window and saw a male dog. Am I unclean. Are my prayers valid?”

I think when Athens and Jerusalem got together in the first century Church, we kind of sorted these things out. However, since (and before) the 12th Century, when Islam decided against the use of Reason in understanding itself – Islam finds itself in a cul-de-sac which it refuses to get out of. And sometimes (often?) the refusal is based on intimidation and threats. That's what happens when one man's religious experience in a cave results in a 'paper god' generations later.

The last task of the Church is the conversion of the Jews. Don't howl me down! If you object to that, take it up with Our Lord.

And like St. Francis of Assisi, and the little girl who grew to be Teresa of Avila, our task is also to set out to take the message of Jesus to the Muslims. Perhaps the best way I can do that here is by being the best and most open Catholic I can. Recently when I had muslim guests in my home for lunch 'out of respect' I did not make the sign of the Cross before I said (silently) Grace before Meals. When I began to eat – a 13 year old muslim boy said to me – “You do not pray before eating?” I will never forget that lesson.

Incidently – I work with Muslims. One person comes fairly frequently and asks me questions about Christian teaching. I try to respond openly, simply, and charitably. I always point out the difference between what the Church teaches and what the Koran states. However, I am always conscious that there is apossibility that what promts this operson to enquire is my own life and how I live it. And that makes me aware of a great responsibility and fear of giving scandal.

Muslims in the west come there and expect to encounter a Christain culture and christian virtues and behaviour. And what do they find? The Church ridiculed from within and without – and Christian culture a museum piece and christian piety lax and apologetic. No wonder they are scandalized and in many cases, despise us. We are the ones who give them all the amunition they need.

Is dialogue possible at present. Perhaps it is taking place behind the scenes, slwoly, diplomatically – but on the street and in the neighbourhood and between local parish and local mosque – I very much doubt it at presnt. The climate is not right.

But the climate is always right for me to be a good catholic and witness to Christ by my life. And in this, I am afarid, I stand wanting.

I believe Hilaire Belloc had one of the clearest explanations of the appeal of Islam in the world of its origin. Read the Cambridge History of Byzantium. You will find there a good description of the gradual corruption which infested that world. An overweening bureaucracy; impossible taxes, continuous warfare. Islam simplified all this by forgiveness of debts [including the forbidding of usury], and simplification of government and bureaucracy. The latter is not unknown in our world; consider the French Revolution and other revolutions; consider the growth of the Tea Party in the US. Consider the growth of the bureaucracies of the U.N., responsible the no one. “Power without responsibility: the prerogative of the whore throughout the ages” [Stanley Baldwin].

Consider Mrs. Pelosi's curious comment about Obamacare: “Let's just pass the bill; we can study it later”. That, in a nutshell, explains the elections in America.

Belloc noted the absurdity of the League of Nations: one third of the world's population was not represented: Islam. He thought that Islam is a heresy. It makes all the difference in what should be our approach.

And then the matter of abortion. Europe is killing the new generations. What wonder if Islam is drawn into the void. I note a similarity with the early Christian martyrs: the Moslems are willing to die for their faith.