Debate: Do inter-religious gatherings sow confusion among the faithful?

I don’t think this should sow confusion at all. “To the pure, all things are pure” as the saying goes, and either one does not believe that all religions are equally valid paths to salvation (in which case inter-religious prayer will be seen in its proper context), or one does not (in which case such prayer will only act to confirm an existing bias).

Providing it is made clear that there can only be unity in intention rather than unity in prayer (since none of these religions can agree exactly on what is meant by “prayer” or “God”), then any confusion can only be based on either a pre-formed belief in this, or a pre-formed desire to be scandalised, and to find fault with the Holy See (in which case, see canon 1404).

At this juncture, the calling of another Assisi meeting is eminently prudent. The inter-religious situation in the Middle East is decidedly precarious in particular, and the call for peace (and indeed, co-operation) is very much a desideratum. It is to be hoped that this call helps to resolve problems in that region, and its clear intention is entirely praiseworthy.

As usual, however, the SSPX looks to be offended, and casts around for jibes against the Papacy. Their attitude is very much that of the Orthodox – anything but submission to the Roman Pontiff.

Just what exactly do these meeting accomplish? Christians are still savagely persecuted in Islamic countries, despite all the ecumenical rear-kissing that the Vatican does to Muslim ambassadors.

Will the necessity of accepting the divinity of Jesus be mentioned or conveniently side-lined, for fear of offending other “religious traditions” (formerly known as false religions)?

I am by no means a rabid SSPX supporter but at least their criticisms of such gatherings (if anyone bothers to read them) is logical and makes Catholic sense – not this charade in pursuit of some nebulous notion of common peace.

This is not a matter for debate but a matter of objective Christian (i.e. Catholic) teaching:

“3. But some are more easily deceived by the outward appearance of good when there is question of fostering unity among all Christians.

4. Is it not right, it is often repeated, indeed, even consonant with duty, that all who invoke the name of Christ should abstain from mutual reproaches and at long last be united in mutual charity? Who would dare to say that he loved Christ, unless he worked with all his might to carry out the desires of Him, Who asked His Father that His disciples might be “one.”[1] And did not the same Christ will that His disciples should be marked out and distinguished from others by this characteristic, namely that they loved one another: “By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another”?[2] All Christians, they add, should be as “one”: for then they would be much more powerful in driving out the pest of irreligion, which like a serpent daily creeps further and becomes more widely spread, and prepares to rob the Gospel of its strength. These things and others that class of men who are known as pan-Christians continually repeat and amplify; and these men, so far from being quite few and scattered, have increased to the dimensions of an entire class, and have grouped themselves into widely spread societies, most of which are directed by non-Catholics, although they are imbued with varying doctrines concerning the things of faith. This undertaking is so actively promoted as in many places to win for itself the adhesion of a number of citizens, and it even takes possession of the minds of very many Catholics and allures them with the hope of bringing about such a union as would be agreeable to the desires of Holy Mother Church, who has indeed nothing more at heart than to recall her erring sons and to lead them back to her bosom. But in reality beneath these enticing words and blandishments lies hid a most grave error, by which the foundations of the Catholic faith are completely destroyed.

5. Admonished, therefore, by the consciousness of Our Apostolic office that We should not permit the flock of the Lord to be cheated by dangerous fallacies, We invoke, Venerable Brethren, your zeal in avoiding this evil; for We are confident that by the writings and words of each one of you the people will more easily get to know and understand those principles and arguments which We are about to set forth, and from which Catholics will learn how they are to think and act when there is question of those undertakings which have for their end the union in one body, whatsoever be the manner, of all who call themselves Christians.”

-Pope Pius XI
‘Mortalium Animos’

Do read the rest:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19280106_mortalium-animos_en.html

“10. So, Venerable Brethren, it is clear why this Apostolic See has never allowed its subjects to take part in the assemblies of non-Catholics: for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it. To the one true Church of Christ, we say, which is visible to all, and which is to remain, according to the will of its Author, exactly the same as He instituted it. During the lapse of centuries, the mystical Spouse of Christ has never been contaminated, nor can she ever in the future be contaminated, as Cyprian bears witness: “The Bride of Christ cannot be made false to her Spouse: she is incorrupt and modest. She knows but one dwelling, she guards the sanctity of the nuptial chamber chastely and modestly.”[20] The same holy Martyr with good reason marveled exceedingly that anyone could believe that “this unity in the Church which arises from a divine foundation, and which is knit together by heavenly sacraments, could be rent and torn asunder by the force of contrary wills.”[21] For since the mystical body of Christ, in the same manner as His physical body, is one,[22] compacted and fitly joined together,[23] it were foolish and out of place to say that the mystical body is made up of members which are disunited and scattered abroad: whosoever therefore is not united with the body is no member of it, neither is he in communion with Christ its head.”

Incidentally, regarding the other question:
“…Or is it worth running the risk in order to unite the world’s religions in the cause of peace?”

In his Papal Encyclical Quas Primas, Pius XI teaches that there can be no peace worthy of the name without the Social Kingship of Christ over every man and every nation.

(Quas Primas, 1925 – http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_11121925_quas-primas_en.html)

Inter-religious dialogue, yes, if the ultimate intention is to bring all men to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, but inter-religious prayer, most certainly not, for reasons given especially in the papal encyclicals quoted and cited above.

Some posters here are confusing dialogue with prayer, but the two are totally different. If Pope Benedict calls upon representatives of other religions to join him for dialogue in a public place, in order to discuss ways of achieving world peace and freedom from persecution for his worldwide flock, then I would indeed thank God. However, I shall be scandalised anew if he reruns Assisi 1986 exactly as his predecessor did, with its open, if unintentional, invitation to very unholy influences.

Pope Benedict has made it clear that hopes for world peace and freedom from religious persecution are currently and urgently very close to his heart. Furthermore, from what I have read recently, he was far from approving much that happened in Assisi in 1986, and I am hoping against hope that if the proposed event takes place this will become clear.

Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.

It is the exact opposite of what the Catholic Church as always taught. See, e.g.,
scribd.com/doc/46116957

So, those Popes were ‘more Catholic’ than the present one? And if you follow those Popes, that makes you…?

Fantastic link!!!

On the Monday evening before the start of the last conclave, the Magnificat antiphon at Vespers (prayed immediately before the Cardinal electors entered the conclave) was: “I have other sheep that are not of this fold, and these I must also lead. They too will listen to my voice, and there will be only one flock, and one shepherd, alleluia. I am convinced that the Holy Father has reflected on this text every day of his pontificate.

For me, this is a trust issue; either we trust Peter, or we don’t. If we don’t trust Peter, where are we?

What on earth have “rays of truth” got to do with anything? Did Our Lord settle for anything less than “rays of truth” in other belief systems?

Well that is why we have the Catholic Church.Let us not deny that God hears the voice of others who call him even non-Christians.We should not forget to appreciate the truth found in other belief systems. Such summits if done in the proper way help people of different creeds to work together in peace and harmony.The 2002 Assisi peace summit was an example.Such summits does not necessarily sideline Christ’s divinity or uniqueness of the Christian faith.

Our Lady of Fatima has revealed what the Pope must do if peace is to be given to the world. He must join together with his bishops in a public and solemn consecration to Her Immaculate Heart. There will be no true peace until this is done.

Why do these Conciliar Popes think they know better than heaven, embarking on forbidden pan-religious gatherings that have no precedent in Catholic history? They act as though it is not essential for souls to enter the Catholic Church if they would be saved. It’s almost as if their whole energy is concentrated on worldiness, human respect and geopolitical gain. What about the silenced dogma ‘outside the Church no salvation?’ Is it not the Pope’s duty in charity to preach this from the housetops, as his predecessors did without ambiguity?

Well did Sister Lucy reveal that the punishment of the Third Secret of Fatima, i.e., the punishment for refusal to obey heaven’s request for a consecration of Russia to Our Lady, is a “diabolical disorientation” that has reached high levels in the clergy. She even directed us to Apocalypse, Chapters 8-13, werein is described a dragon whose tail hurls a third of the stars of heaven down to the earth, commonly understood by theologians to refer to a great apostasy within the clergy, not to mention millions of fallen laity. I believe we are living through this particular punishment today. That’s why they cannot see the almost total destruction of the Catholic Faith in Europe since Vatican II, but rather continue to push forward with their liberal agenda, one of the errors of Russia.

Our Lord said to Sister Lucy, comparing this modern refusal of the high clergy to consecrate Russia to Mary’s Immaculate Heart with King Louis’ refusal to heed St. Margaret Mary’s message to consecrate France to the Sacred Heart, “Since, like the king of France, they choose not to obey, then like him they will fall into misfortune.” That’s why the Church is in decline and Communistic Socialism now rules almost every nation on earth.

I absolutely agree, Paulmck. The Church declares that the mercy of God extends to those non-Catholics, in life, had no way of knowing the truth of the Catholic religion, but who nevertheless lived their lives uprighly and morally in accordance with their lights. In other words, some may be saved in their false religions, but never by them. One must generally belong to the Catholic Church if one is to be saved.

I share your hopes and prayers that the Pope will abandon this planned interfaith venture at Assisi and instead invite these poor non-Catholics to embrace the true religion, lest their souls perish for eternity. One soul lost in eternity is more catastrophic in the eyes of God than the death of millions of bodies.

as an Muslim, you must realise that your arrogance in proclaiming all other religions as false and your God as the true and only one as quite arrogant, and insulting. My faith equally rejects the idea of Jesus as a God, and I obviously feel I do not believe in the same God as you, but I do like to show I care about your freedoms to practise your religion in this country, and hopefully you also share this with me.

The day of prayer is an exercise in respect and a celebration of being able to practise religion without persecution or restriction. We obviously do not believe in the very same deities, but we all want to freely practise and for neither religion or state to act in repression of the people. We also, you would be surprised, share many of the same moral teachings and books from your Bible. We look at Jesus as a respected prophet.

Praying together may be a superficial act, but the general premise of the event is good if it is to increase tolerance and understanding between different faiths and also pursuit of mutually beneficial objectives

In principle, I don’t find anything objectionable if leaders of religions come together to pray; I wouldn’t have any even they came to pray together, provided that the content of a mutual prayer doesn’t compromise the Catholic Faith.

In principle, I say; but whether it is prudent is another matter. The problem is how to avoid the faithful being mislead to believe that all religions are the same, that the Catholic Church is not necessary for salvation, how to avoid upsetting those who would mistakenly see in such event a betrayal of the Catholic faith.

On the other hand, we are asked to spread the Gospel to all nations, while the Church teaches that an assent of faith is expected to be a free assent, not imposed by any pressure. How that assent can be given if they see us as enemies, not in the sense of political enemies but in the sense of hostility toward their religion which would be evident if we did not want to establish a respectful contact with them.

We must always keep in mind that a man must never act against his conscience even if that conscience is in error. If one acts against his conscience he commits formal sin. Granted that the members of other religions sincerely believe that their way is the right one, i.e. that what they do is done in good faith, we must apply to them what we apply to ourselves: they must never bring themselves in situation in which their faith might be weakened, still less lost. So, if they realize from our actions that our intention is to do exactly that, they have to stay away from us to preserve what they believe to be holy. Otherwise, they compromise their conscience, and commit formal sin, and we commit sin by persuading them to compromise their conscience.

So, the question arises, how to evangelize them? And we are called to evangelize them – otherwise we commit sin of omission, and are uncharitable if we leave them in the state of formal and material separation from the true faith from which alone their salvation can come.

I can see no way of helping them except by establishing a respectful contact with them, the contact the aim of which is in no way aimed to induce them to act against their conscience. And that contact must be sincere, not accompanied with a second thought behind their back. So, the prayerful meeting in which we join together to pray can be the way of establishing such contact.

As the Decree Nostra Aetate asks of us, we must sincerely welcome all that is true and good in their faith, and support it whenever possible if it is possible without compromising our faith. How much truth and good there is in other religions we cannot know unless we learn about it from them, and that again demands respectful contact, the aim of which is not to seek errors and evil but truth and good. Failure to do this is the sin of omission. And much of it we can learn from the prayer, because it is reasonable to assume that the principle “lex orandi – lex credendi” is applicable to them too. Yet another reason to meet and pray.

In the end, the Church must decide between doing nothing and respectful contact – that is certain; an aggessive evangelization has to be ruled out. An assessment of what would be more prudent in the present situation in the Church cannot be but in he hands of the Holy Father and the bishops who are in communion with him. He must have our support

No doubt their are extreme elements in the Muslim community, that cannot be denied. You can also find extreme rhetoric in our texts. However, to not forget however that your New Testament and your Old Testament are part of our Holy texts, in the Torah and the Engel, which are our words for those books.

Also the Bible also harbours information that I would hardly feel a responsible Christian would feel comfortable with. Such as the genocide of the tribes of Israel, as aided by God, Jesus not speaking out against slavery, God’s mass genocide in the form of Noah’s flood and the child killing en masse in Egypt of the first born.

What matters is that we split myth from truth, and that we split cultural references and from values we still respect. As far as Sharia law is concerned, bear in mind that many Muslims, such as myself, reject an alternate religious law to the nation state – as it contravenes democracy and freedom. Look to the millions of moderate American Muslims who are proud to live in a secular democracy.

The truth about Sharia law is that it is outdated, but for its time it for forward thinking and encouraged judges to use reason and logic to come to rulings of justice.
The idea of conversion being punishable by death is based on a technicality in the 7th century in which apostasy was seen as treasonous and a man was put to death. Apostasy is no longer considered a crime by Muslim states, so generally those that convert are not due any criminal sanction today.

Consider, in the crusades Christian soldiers raped, murdered and pillaged, no doubt they would have applied the same logic to those that would have tried to convert them to Islam. All of our religious texts are historical documents somewhat, and both our religious texts and yours show sides of humanity we would not want to emulate.
Religions can be hijacked for evil, you can see this in all religions.

Below at the bottom is an article about some very prominent Italians calling on Pope Benedict not to repeat the great sin John Paul 11 committed at Assisi, a sin that will without any doubt bring down a great Chastisement. I rely on the following in support of this.
In 1918 just one year after Our Lady came to Fatima, the very great Cardinal Mercier of Belgium said that the First World War was a punishment for the crime of men placing the one true Catholic religion on the same level with false creeds. Cardinal Mercier said “In the name of the Gospel, and in the light of the Encyclicals of the last four Popes, Gregory XV1, Pius 1X, Leo X111 and Pius X, I do not hesitate to affirm that this indifference to religions which puts on the same level the religion of divine origin and the religions invented by men in order to include them in the same sceptism in the blasphemy which calls down chastisement on society far more than the sins of individuals and families.” So according to this great Churchman this Spirit of Assisi, this false ecumenism is the blasphemy that will incur Divine Chastisement!
Now truly, it can be seen that we are entering the final phases of the Fatima Prophesies, that phase Our Lady warned us about when She said
“If they heed My requests, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace. If not, she shall spread her errors throughout the world, promoting wars and persecutions of the Church; the good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated; in the end, My Immaculate Heart shall triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, which will be converted, and a period of peace will be given to the world.”
Or as Fr. Malichi Martin said in an interview back in 1998 in relation to The Third Secret of Fatima “We have passed the either stage we are now entering the or stage.” (Either you do this OR)
For not only have the good as well as the bad ignored Our Blessed Mother, but rather than obey the requests of Our Lady of Fatima the Diabolical Disorientation of the upper Hierarchy now propose to ignore the promise of world peace given by Our Lady on the fulfillment of Her requests and repeat one of the great sins of the Church and pray for world peace instead with all the false man made creeds of the world. This is unbelievable when you consider that as recent as May 11th 2010 Pope Benedict while on on his way to Fatima stated to the press in relation to the Fatima Prophesies that “Not only from the outside come the attacks to the Pope and the Church, but the sufferings of the Church come right from the inside of the Church, by the sins committed inside the Church itself.” (See the Fatima Crusader, Fatima Challenge Conference Edition for the full text of what the Pope said on that occasion).
On December 10th, 1925, Our Lady and the Child Jesus appeared to St Lucia in the Convent at Pontevedra. Our Lord said to St. Lucia “Have compassion on the Heart of your Most Holy Mother, covered with thorns, with which ungrateful men pierce it at every moment, and there is no one to make an Act of Reparation to remove them.” Our Lady went on to ask for people to make the Five First Saturdays with the intention of making Reparation to the Immaculate Heart. When St, Lucia at Tuy on May 29th asked Our Lord (As instructed by her confessor Fr. Goncalves) why Five First Saturdays. Our Lord responded “My daughter, the reason is simple. There are five types of offences and blasphemies committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary:
1. Blasphemies against the Immaculate Conception; ……….Guilty as charged; Most Protestants, most of the Eastern Orthodox, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, Freemasons, Communists, Socialists, secular humanists etc.
2. Blasphemies against Her Perpetual Virginity;……….Guilty as charged; Most Protestants, , Jews, Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, Freemasons, Communists, Socialists, secular humanists etc. In fact many “Catholics” today do not believe in Her Perpetual Virginity.
3. Blasphemies against Her Divine Maternity, in refusing at the same time to recognize Her as the Mother of men;……….Guilty as charged; We know that Moslems, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists reject this teaching, especially because they do not believe that Jesus Christ is God.
4. The blasphemies of those who publicly seek to sow in the hearts of children indifference or scorn or even hatred of this Immaculate Mother;…Guilty as charged; Protestants, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, Freemasons, Communists, Socialists, secular humanists etc. Sadly also many “Catholics”.
5. The offences of those who outrage Her directly in Her Holy Images.”;……….Guilty as charged; This includes those who would actually destroy Her images, ridicule them, or those like Protestants who accuse Catholics of idolatry for having statues of Our Lady in places of honor
Our Lord clearly is not taking the modern ecumenical approach here that led to Assisi 1. He is not emphasizing those points that unite us with false religions. He is emphasizing those points that divide us from non-Catholics! He is telling us these points are far more important than any superficial ecumenical unity. Clearly and in the objective order He is accusing all these false man made religions of BLASPHEMY AGAINST HIS MOST HOLY MOTHER! He is emphasizing that these blasphemies against Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart are not to be taken lightly. They are, in fact sins against the Faith! This is an indictment against all non-Catholic religions. This is truly a call by God for all Catholics to do Penance and make Reparation (For the full story of these visions please read The True Story of Fatima by John de Marchi, I.M.C.)
Even the very dogs of the street can sense something is wrong with the state of the world today. We can see looking around the world that every country now hangs on a knife edge, ready to descend into complete chaos and anarchy. The Mystery of Iniquity is poised to unfold before our very eyes.
The clock is ticking. Please do promote and spread this message, They are the Requests of Our Lord and His Blessed Mother.
Please promote the Message of Our Lady of Fatima with Catholic fervor.
Make Reparation for the Blasphemies against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
Do Penance.
Pray the Rosary.
“The Holy Father,” “Pray, pray a great deal, for the Holy Father. He will do it, but it will be late. Nevertheless, the Immaculate Heart of Mary will save Russia. It has been entrusted to Her.” Our Lord to St. Lucia.
“In the end My Immaculate Heart will Triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, which will be converted, and a period of peace will be given to the world.” Our Lady says only She can bring peace to the world!

The Catholic Church needs to return to how it was pre-Vatican II. We for sure have to pray for the Church, the Church hierarchy, and union for all Christians under Catholicism. Christ only established One Truth, One Church.

I myself support the SSPX, reason being it has nothing to do with what’s convenient for me but more to do with the bad fruits being produced in the post-Concillar Church, and doing what the Church has always intended since Christ gave the keys to St.Peter.

You have many so called “Catholics” who pick and choose to believe what’s convenient for them. No humility, I know this because I used to be one, and in many instances I still struggle, but I go to confession and try to make an effort to turn away completely. To think that all people receive salvation is contrary to the faith.

This whole ecumenism is just but one issue destroying the faith (thank you Freemasons). No priests except and handful in the Novus Ordo churches that I’ve met teach that hell exists and that there’s purgatory.

You have a problem in the faith when confession lines are nearly empty and all people are receiving communion meaning either everyone is in a state of grace, or that mortal sin does not exist. You have a problem when people are clapping at the end of mass like it’s a concert. You have a problem when the rosary is not being promoted by post-concillar priests. You have a problem when you have priests talking about issues contrary to the faith like homophobia. You have a problem when priests are mentioning that people in other religions are saved denying the dogmas of baptism of water, baptism of desire and baptism of blood. Mind you if anyone is saved outside the Church though the church never teaches that it will only be by God’s mercy for that person, but we as faithful can’t rely on that because it was never taught.

The best thing to do, is to pray for the Church and the Pope that they turn from their errors.

From the comments I have read, the answer to the question, ‘does it cause confusion’. The answer is clearly YES.