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Michael Voris is coming to London. Cafeteria Catholics watch out

His message is simple: we Catholics should be prepared to live our faith radically

By on Thursday, 4 August 2011

Michael Voris speaks at a bloggers' meeting at a bar in Rome (CNS photo/Paul Haring)

Michael Voris speaks at a bloggers' meeting at a bar in Rome (CNS photo/Paul Haring)

The good news first: Michael Voris, founder of The Vortex, RealCatholicTV.com and the Catholic Investigative Agency (CIA) is coming to London. Those who were not able to attend the Catholic bloggers’ conference in Rome earlier this year will now have the opportunity to meet him and listen to him. The talk will be on “Living the Catholic Faith Radically”, the date is August 24, the time is 7pm, the cost is £5, payable at the door or by Paypal, and the venue is Regent Hall, 275 Oxford Street, London W1C 2DJ. This initiative has been arranged by Paul Smeaton, son of John Smeaton of SPUC, and the email address for enquiries is: voristalklondon@gmail.com.

So what is the bad news? The bad news is what Michael Voris will talk about: the decline of the Church in the west and what we Catholics need to do to halt and reverse this decline. His message, as those who watch RealCatholicTV.com will know, is very simple: if we Catholics are not prepared to live our faith radically ie be 100 per cent faithful to all the Church’s teachings and not pick or choose the bits we are comfortable with – we cannot call ourselves Catholic.

Some of his critics would argue that Voris is too judgmental of his fellow Catholics, laity and hierarchy alike. He takes this on the chin, with the counter-punch that for too long there has not been enough serious talk by the Church’s pastors about the gravity of sin and the reality of judgment – and that is why the Church is in a mess today. He maintains that charity is truth and that it is not charitable to avoid the truth when others’ souls are imperilled by our silence. He has harsh words for those he calls “professional Catholics”, who accept the Church’s teaching without deeply believing them, and who have simply forgotten the mission of the Church.

By his own admission, Voris was once a lapsed Catholic. What brought him back were the prayers of his mother as she lay dying of cancer. They proved a powerful wake-up call and he has been trying to wake up his fellow Catholics ever since.

The themes of The Vortex, his short, punchy YouTube presentations, available for free, are not the sort to attract cafeteria Catholics: they often include a mention of Hell; they name indolent or heretical members of the hierarchy; they often discuss the evils of contraception – “evil in its intent and in its execution” – and the other moral disasters it has led to, such as widespread abortion, divorce and the acceptance of other forms of recreational sex, such as same-sex relationships. Indeed, whatever peaceable accommodation Catholics have made with the world you can be sure that Michael Voris has taken a crusading stand against it.

Some traditionalists don’t like him because he doesn’t make a wholesale return to the Extraordinary Form of the Mass his single issue. He is entirely respectful of the traditional Latin Mass, but follows the Church in maintaining there is one rite, under two forms; both are permitted and Catholics are free to choose. But he does emphasise that reverence needs to be recovered in the New Rite and that “kneeling and on the tongue is the preferred method of reception of the Host in the universal Church”.

Others don’t like Voris’s style, “the way he waves his pesky pencil” as a friend put it to me, or the confident way he declares that The Vortex is “where lies and falsehoods are trapped and exposed”. He is too brash, too American, too in your face, too preachy, too un-PC. For me he simply answers the question: why be a Catholic? His sturdy response is: “Because the Catholic Church is the only hope against evil – as that is its God-given mission.”

  • Annie

    It’s so refreshing and inspiring to hear it like it is from Voris, rather than the wet nicey-nicey stuff we’re so used to from people who seem to be uncomfortable mentioning anything even vaguely challenging in the Catechism. I was gobsmacked in a really good way the first time I saw one of his broadcasts.

    Go Voris :D

  • Anonymous

    THANK GOODNESS SOMEONE IS PREPARED TO TEACH THE TRUTH ABOUT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, THEY CERTAINLY DON’T HEAR IT FROM THE PULPIT!
    OUR LADY OF FATIMA SAID MORE SOULS GO TO HELL BECAUSE OF SINS OF THE FLESH.
    OUR LADY ALSO SAID TO PRAY THE ROSARY EVERY DAY, WHY ARE CATHOLICS IGNORING THIS MANDATE FROM HEAVEN?
    OUR LADY SAID IN 1973, AKITA, JAPAN APPROVED BY CHURCH
      If men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all humanity. It will be a punishment greater than the deluge, such as one will never have seen before. Fire will fall from the sky and will wipe out a great part of humanity, the good as well as the bad, sparing neither priests nor faithful. The survivors will find themselves so desolate that they will envy the dead. The only arms which will remain for you will be the Rosary and the Sign left by My Son. Each day recite the prayers of the Rosary. With the Rosary, pray for the Pope, the Bishops and the priests.
    “The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see Cardinals opposing Cardinals, Bishops against other Bishops. The priests who venerate Me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres (other priests). Churches and altars will be sacked. The Church will be full of those who accept compromises, and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord.
    “The demon will be especially implacable against the souls consecrated to God. The thought of the loss of so many souls is the cause of My sadness. If sins increase in number and gravity, there will no longer be pardon for them.
    “…Pray very much the prayers of the Rosary. I alone am able to still save you from the calamities which approach. Those who place their confidence in Me will be saved.”
    PRAY,PRAY,PRAY KEEP THE FAITH,
    GOD BLESS YOU ALL
    ANNE
    .

  • Erplad

    Yes I’m a socialist, yes I’d rather tolerate others views so long as the don’t advocate violence and harm. I try not to judge, ,I’ll leave that particular job to Our Lord. Sane people don’t need selective editing to come to the conclusion that Glenn Beck and Fox news is moronic, waremongering overly patriotc nonsense. .delivered by knowing, disingenuous liars and hypocrits. .for consumption by the the dimmest, credulous lowest common denomitator. The current Tea Party con trick is a case in point. Ordinary people opposing  policies that would enhance their lives with better extended healthcare. Instead they advocate policies that would benefit the likes of millionaire Mr Rupert Murdoch (Prop Fox News) and the Koch brothers who advocate similar views through their AFP which has it’s views generously exposed by Fox and Glenn Beck. If you truly believe Glenn Beck is a sincere honourable man then you probably shouldn’t be allowed out on your own.

  • jim

    I can’t believe that I have just read the following passage from a “Catholic Newspaper,”  
    So what is the bad news? The bad news is what Michael Voris will talk about: the decline of the Church in the west and what we Catholics need to do to halt and reverse this decline. His message, as those who watch RealCatholicTV.com will know, is very simple: if we Catholics are not prepared to live our faith radically ie be 100 per cent faithful to all the Church’s teachings and not pick or choose the bits we are comfortable with – we cannot call ourselves Catholic.
    Is Francis Phillips an Anglican in disguise?  Or is she the spokesperson of the Tony Blair Church of Catholicism?  Either way, why is she writing in a paper regarded as part of the 2000 year Catholic church of Rome? 
     

  • Anonymous

    Erplad,
    Firstly you label Michael Voris ‘Another intolerant American hatefull “Christian” ‘
    Then you say ‘ If you truly believe Glenn Beck is a sincere honourable man then you probably shouldn’t be allowed out on your own. ‘
    But in the very same post you say ‘ I try not to judge, ,I’ll leave that particular job to Our Lord.’

    My advice to you is ….. try harder!  (when you have wiped away the hate filled foam from your mouth that is).

  • Erplad

    Just checked my mouth. . .erm nope. . definately no hate filled foam. I’ve never actually seen another human with a foaming mouth due to an episode of hatred in all my 44 years. What strange company you must keep if you have. I stand by my analysis of Glenn Beck. He’s a transparent fraud. A propagandist for the economic right wing in the states. A man who readily advocates war and victimisation of the poor. And I believe he does this for financial gain. .not for any other reason. If you believe his corny hammy performances in front of the camera then you’re either a fool or person WITH hate looking for someone to legitamise your inherent hate.

  • Anonymous

    Well Mrs Phillips: WHY AREN’T YOU CATHOLIC JOURNALISTS FOLLOWING BY HIS LEAD?

    If his style is too brash – too american – why aren’t you delivering the same message in a quaint ‘cholmondeley-by -the-wold, Miss Marple and bramble scones’ stiff-upper lip spirit of Agincourt authentically English style?

    Same Gospel: Same Church teaching: Same heresies,revisionisms and moral relativisms being preached from the pulpit, taught in the seminaries and Catholic institutes, same anti-Catholic and anti-Papal propaganda emanating from our alleged catholic spokespersons, authors, journalists and commentators ; Same deplorable renegade Episcopacy [don't deny it - as we speak there are children in Catholic schools being given contraceptives to engage in underage sex and abortifacients or abortion referrals - all under the auspices of a Bishops' Conference advocated Connexions program - as we speak there are terminally ill patents being starved and desiccated in excruciating pain because OUR BISHOPS signed off on a Liverpool Care pathway which declares nutrition and hydration as clinical treatment which may be withdrawn - and that's before we refer to all the other myriad of abrogations of their duties and responsibilities to the faithful]

    No: Instead you all prefer to talk about ‘safe subjects’ which certainly rock nobody’s boat and never rain on anyone’s parade.

    Mr Voris at least gives us a fighting chance.

    You lot?
    You gave in and went native years ago.

  • Anonymous

    And you have the cheek to moan about the inane and nasty comments on your blog.  What a creep you are.  What happened . . . you fall off the wagon?

  • Anonymous

    Funnily enough this is exactly the sort of thing that I am talking about. The reason that John Hagee, and other pastors are so keen on end time events (and Armageddon) is because they do not shy away from the fight, and from what the bible tells us.

    However, us Catholics do shy away from many of these things. Eschatology, in particular is avoided by Catholics and it is hidden away as a purely theological and academic pursuit. I understand that John Hagee is no friend of the Catholic Church. However, on this issue, that you have raised, he is only highlighting what the bible tells us (including Catholics) to do.

    In the last paragraphs of Revelation it clearly says that “The Spirit and the Bride say, ‘Come!’

    We are clearly told to pray for Christ to return.

  • Anonymous

    @Parasum
    A technical question: using ‘matter’ in the Thomist sense, aren’t form and matter essential to human nature, and therefore to Christ’s human nature, even in his glorified existence?
    I realise this sense of ‘matter’ is not the same as the modern usage. I am not sure in what sense you are using it.
    Clearly the accidents (‘appearances’) are those of bread and wine but do not indicate the substance which is present.
    Sorry, I was trying to post this under the relevant post, but Disqus is messing it up.

  • Anonymous

    A technical question: using ‘matter’ in the Thomist sense, aren’t form and matter essential to human nature, and therefore to Christ’s human nature, even in his glorified existence?
    I realise this sense of ‘matter’ is not the same as the modern usage. I am not sure in what sense you are using it.
    Clearly the accidents (‘appearances’) are those of bread and wine but do not indicate the substance which is present.

  • Anonymous

    Traditionalists are ‘cafeteria Catholics’ just as much as liberals are. Of the four sins that cry aloud to Heaven for vengeance, traditionalists passionately condemn two (wilful murder, including abortion, and the sin of Sodom) and are indifferent to the oppression of the poor and defrauding the labourer of his wages. The liberals reverse this.  .

  • amfortas

    Astonishing comment piece. Voris is so ultra montane he makes Newman look like an ultra-liberal. To be an enthusiast for Voris really puts you out of polite society.

  • amfortas

    I’m sorry, I can’t get past the rug. Or the ‘STB’!

  • amfortas

    He’s a swivel eyed loon and gives orthodoxy a bad name.

  • amfortas

    I think being a Catholic has something to do with salvation. Have I missed something? Why have ideologues taken over the Catholic Herald?

  • Anonymous

    Oh that sooooooooooooo demands an impolite response.

    What next amfortas?
    Going to denounce Mr Voris as a Taliban ? or an Ultra?  or [as a Catholic Voices member Peter Williams refers to any of the orthodox radical ilk] “pyjamahideen”?

    With the deepest disrespect: Take your polite society – and your bigotry of ‘good manners’ – and shove it!

  • Anonymous

    Amfortas,

    You may not like his in-your-face style but I find it refreshing and necessary in this age of heterodoxy among many in the Catholic hierarchy.  The canned statement you made has no basis in fact….I don’t see how you can malign a man who speaks the truth. 

  • Annie

    That’s a really outrageous statement to make about traditionalists. What on earth are you basing it on?

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

     In what way?

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Well, what about the  “in your face style” of priests like the Catholic Times columnist Mgr Basil Loftus who  this week, for example, likened Cardinals to “a poor man’s Elton John” (mocking their official dress.)

    I wonder if amfortas thinks that’s OK?  And that’s before we even begin to consider the dissenting nonsense he writes about doctrine and morals. “In your face” doesn’t begin to cut it.

  • Born4the7thX

    The fact that Catholics see THIS guy as the savior of the moribund institution that is the Catholic Church is pretty fascinating. 

  • Born4the7thX

    Yes the STB is absolutely hilarious. But somehow this carries great gravitas with his followers.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

     Do I detect a green-eyed monster here? 

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    No need to be so rude to Damian. He does his best. Just  because his best isn’t good enough, doesn’t mean you have to insult  him. 

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    The Catholic Church has no need of a new “saviour” – Christ, the Saviour, will be with His Church until the end of time.  We have His own word for that.

    More puzzling than any mystery of Faith, however, is the mystery of why those of you who hate the Church founded by Christ bother your daft heads blogging on Catholic sites. 

    Go and start your own religion, if you’re that interested in religion and you think God got it wrong.  Like, NOW!  You get to be really boring after a while.  Like, don’t get me wrong. If you want to learn and to seek  answers to the questions of life and death, stick around. But if, as seems to be the case, you just want to annoy, let – with respect – get lost.

  • Anonymous

    On my considerable personal experience of traditionalists, I’m sorry to say. The traditionalists I know, and the traditionalist publications and blogs I read, are obsessed with liturgical trivia and a selective approach to personal morality while showing no interest in the Church’s social teaching.

  • Anonymous

    Not sure why my reply to you seemed to end up elsewhere on the thread as an independent posting, but here it is again:On my considerable personal experience of traditionalists, I’m sorry to say. The traditionalists I know, and the traditionalist publications and blogs I read, are obsessed with liturgical trivia and a selective approach to personal morality while showing no interest in the Church’s social teaching.

  • Anonymous

    Not sure about that: it may be that these areas tend to get commandeered by those with a bent for liberation theology. That must be rather off-putting. It is of course, possible to be both doctrinally orthodox and socially radical.

  • amfortas

    Bring back Bishop Sheen! Down with extremists like Voris!

  • Anonymous

    Yes – but not when so many traditionally-leaning Catholics – especially in the US – believe that collective action towards the actuation of the corporal and spiritual works of mercy – is anti-Charity, is against private property, is stealing their tax dollars and reeks of the iron heel of the red menace…

    We are the Church of Rerum Novarum, Quadragesima Anno, Caritas in Veritate etc etc etc…

    But beware: Michael Voris certainly got one thing right in the inherent corruption, treachery and inhumanity in the Saul Alinsky model:

    …and it’s coming here very soon if the Alinsky promoters and acolytes [e.g. Ivereigh] have their own way.

    Be warned: Officially Organised and Conference-backed Catholic social justice will soon become a triple-misnomer.

  • Christine

    Neither St. Paul nor St. James honeycoated their speech, but proclaimed the truth fearlessly and without compromise. St. John, on the other hand, emphasized God’s tenderness. We need both types in the Church. You might not prefer Voris’s style, but we need him just as much as we need the more soft-spoken Catholics.

  • Christine

    Parasum: Your remarks show how little you understand. Perhaps it’s because you’re on the other side of the Atlantic and not familiar with American church politics.

    The Detroit archdiocese is one of the most LIBERAL dioceses in the U.S. Its seminary was a hotbed of gay activism, and was closed down by the Vatican after a sex textbook scandal. The diocese can’t stand Voris because of his orthodoxy, and the bishop has refused to meet with Voris in spite of the fact that Voris has personally attempted to contact him six times. The archdiocese can find no heterodoxy in ANY of RealCatholicTV’s productions, but continues to refuse to grant them a hearing.

    As to his canceled speaking engagement in Scranton, it was for no other reason than that the diocese deemed some of his comments “insensitive” to other faiths. Nonsense. The Scranton diocese is more than willing to allow a pro-abortion lesbian to speak at one of its colleges, but bans Voris because he won’t soften his tone!

    Voris responds to the cancellation here:

  • Christine

    “The Eucharistic Presence is where the Consecrated Host is – it is one form of the Presence of Christ, and not the only one.”

    Of *course* it’s not the only way in which Christ is made present–but He is present in the highest and most special way in the Eucharist, a way different from His presence anywhere else.

    It is of course obvious that treasuring the Eucharist goes hand in hand with showing charity to others. Voris would agree with you 100%. He often exhorts Catholics to be charitable. But perhaps your definition of charity differs from his; he believes charity requires speaking truth without compromise, and that can sometimes mean causing offense. He cites words his dying mother spoke to him as an example: “I don’t want to be in heaven knowing you’re in hell.” Not particularly politically correct, possibly offensive–but charitable? Yes, in the extreme–for they helped bring him back to the Church.

    You might want to rethink what it means to be charitable. You might also want to consider what it means to be judgmental. It is NOT judgmental to point out flaws in doctrine, or to show outrage at scandalous behavior.

  • Christine

    Please substantiate your charges. Exactly how is Voris an “extremist”?  Examples, please.

  • Christine

    “RealCatholicTV refuses to acknowledge that the Novus Ordo is itself the
    work of progressives (as anyone can discover for himself by reading a
    little history) and that it has severely damaged the faith, just as
    Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci predicted.”

    False. Watch his video (from Catholic Investigative Agency) on “Mass Confusion”, which highlights the role of Abp. Bugnini and other progressives in the crafting of the Novus Ordo. He is fully aware of the history of the Novus Ordo and its radical break from the Mass as we knew it before.

    That is not the same thing as saying he would reject the validity of the N.O. Mass (as long as it is said correctly and with the proper intention).

  • Christine

    I’m one traditionalist who does take an interest in the Church’s social teaching. So let’s not caricature the bunch, hm?

  • Christine

    Really? That’s news to me, and I’m a traditionalist.

    Let’s try to keep our caricatures to a minimum.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Christine, this must be a fairly  recent policy change.  We had two debates on this subject under the heading “The Elephant in the Room at RealCatholicTV” focusing on email exchanges between one of our bloggers and an unnamed representative of RealCatholicTV.  The “elephant in the room” was their refusal to recognise progressives at work in Vatican II  and the new  Mass. Here is what RealCatholicTV said at that time: 

    It will never happen at RealCatholicTV.com that we debate the relative merits of
    the Novus Ordo vs. the Traditional Latin Mass. That debate is well covered,
    within faithful and orthodox guidelines, in too many places to count. We are
    familiar with all the arguments. The bottom line is that the Novus Ordo when
    celebrated obediently, respectfully and reverently is not only a valid Mass but
    as spiritually enriching as the Traditional 
    Latin Mass.
    http://www.catholictruthscotland.com/blog/2010/04/the-elephant-in-the-room-at-rctv-part-i/

    As you will see if you follow the link to the first part of this debate, RealCatholicTV go on to make some very damning comments about the novus ordo while still insisting on its validity.

    That argument no longer holds water for me.  I know priests who are, without doubt, clear about their intention to offer the Sacrifice of the Mass in the novus ordo and they are admirable priests.  Proof? Not popular with the bishop!  But, I wouldn’t dream of risking my life by buying meat from a butcher’s shop where there was even a remote rumour that some of the meat contains even a drop of poison. In the same way, since the novus ordo has a proven track record of protestantising the faithful, to the point where many of them propose the same arguments that Protestants use to make about the use of Latin and express negative views through to outright hatred of the Mass that nourished  the saints and martyrs for centuries, not to mention the widespread contraceptive mentality now prevalent among Catholics and their pro-abortion, pro-gay positions.   Whether or not this or that priest says a “reverent” Mass (you can kill a chicken reverently and even satanic rituals are conducted with “reverence”) there can be no doubt that the novus ordo Mass has not been a benefit to the Church.  It has allowed that “smoke of Satan” lamented by Pope Paul VI, to get into the Church and, as  one top cardinal in the Vatican said not that long ago (but long enough for me to have forgotten his name!) in another generation, it will be gone.

    Anyway, I welcome this turnaround at RealCatholicTV – a step in the right direction.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

     Christine,

    Anybody  who holds to the full Catholic package is an “extremist” these days – you must know that by  now?  And if you attend the Traditional Latin Mass, you’re not just an extremist but an “ultra-Traditionalist”

    for list of “extremists” and  “ultra-Traditionalists” see the Litany of the Saints..

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    For list of “extremists” and  “ultra-Traditionalists” see the Litany of the Saints..

  • Torquemada

    Thank you for the update, Christine, and along with EditorCT I welcome this change of perspective – because it is Catholic. Now, about the other part of said perspective (theirs, not yours), namely, that the Novus Ordo can be as spiritually enriching as the Traditional Mass – utter, ludicrous, disoriented nonsense. How can a liturgy which has been stripped of its Catholic identity, in order to avoid offending Protestants, possibly be enriching at all? To claim that is to deny the entire patrimony of the Church, and the ensuing great apostasy proves my point. (Actually, it’s not my point at all, I can claim no credit for it.)

    I hope RealCatholicTV is still not caught in the web of false obedience on this, but we shall see…

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IPJLMPYOYEELBTOVZV7TBLL2PA Charlie

    As an ex-catholic I would like to say, WWJD   Read your New Testament.  Pray to God IN JESUS NAME,  Mary was Jesus’ Earthly mother,  she is not diety.  Jesus went to the cross to die so WE could have forgiveness of sin and get back to the Father  who is ALL Loving.  God loves catholics, but he loves All people. We will get back to Him when we accept His firstborn son, Jesus,  as Lord and savior.  We must ask Him to come into our heart.  He will.   God wants a big family, no question.  Jesus went to the cross so we don’t have to.  He paid the price we never could.  We just have to ask the Lord to forgive us,  He said He would.  He already paid the price for past, present, and future sins.  We just have to repent, that means turn and go the other way.   And Jesus is the ONLY hope for this world, not the catholic church and its laws.  As God said in His book.  It is the letter of  the law that kills,  the spirit of the law brings life.  You can’t make people be holy.  We all get a choice!  To love God is a choice.  If we love Him and our brother, we will keep All of HIS  commandments  Blessings

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IPJLMPYOYEELBTOVZV7TBLL2PA Charlie

    what difference does it make to you about his hair and why r u judging him

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IPJLMPYOYEELBTOVZV7TBLL2PA Charlie

    you believe the Church in the bible is referring to the Catholic Church,  The church in the bible is referring to All those in the world who believe on Jesus Christ as Lord and savior,  catholics and protestants.  All who name the name of Jesus.  Please remember it was the religious sects who had him crucified, although it was God’s plan for redemption for all of us.  

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IPJLMPYOYEELBTOVZV7TBLL2PA Charlie

    you believe the Church in the bible is referring to the Catholic Church,  The church in the bible is referring to All those in the world who believe on Jesus Christ as Lord and savior,  catholics and protestants.  All who name the name of Jesus.  Please remember it was the religious sects who had him crucified, although it was God’s plan for redemption for all of us.  

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IPJLMPYOYEELBTOVZV7TBLL2PA Charlie

    Who teaches that herecy anymore?  Surely no adult in their right mind could believe this.  Salvation is from the heart and the bible teaches No man comes to God unless the Holy Spirit draws him.  That is why we must pray for God to draw the hearts of the people to Himself.   Being Catholic puts you under the law and leaves you with No Hope.  Especially for women.  Jesus came to set the captives free.  And our freedom and equality comes only from him.  Not man-made religion.    When Jesus told Peter he was building His church, it was on the revelation that Jesus was the Son of God, not Peter a man.   How did that ever get started.  What spiritually minded person would follow a man who was a sinner like all of us, over Jesus who is God the Son?  

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IPJLMPYOYEELBTOVZV7TBLL2PA Charlie

    Lisa, it’s a CHOICE,  not a law.  It is the Holy Spirit’s job to draw men to repentance.  We must accept All that the Bible teaches as the church is fallible. We are people who love God who sin. We are accepted by the Blood of Jesus.  We are forgiven because of the Blood of Jesus.  Not Rules,  God gave Israel so many rules so they would know they needed a savior because they could Never keep them all.  It is all about the love of Jesus and his sacrifice.  Try telling someone they can’t do something, that is the very thing they will do.  It’s human nature.  The catholic church puts people under so much bondage.  Jesus set us free.  We need to ask Him to come into our heart and change us.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IPJLMPYOYEELBTOVZV7TBLL2PA Charlie

    Lisa, it’s a CHOICE,  not a law.  It is the Holy Spirit’s job to draw men to repentance.  We must accept All that the Bible teaches as the church is fallible. We are people who love God who sin. We are accepted by the Blood of Jesus.  We are forgiven because of the Blood of Jesus.  Not Rules,  God gave Israel so many rules so they would know they needed a savior because they could Never keep them all.  It is all about the love of Jesus and his sacrifice.  Try telling someone they can’t do something, that is the very thing they will do.  It’s human nature.  The catholic church puts people under so much bondage.  Jesus set us free.  We need to ask Him to come into our heart and change us.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Charlie,

    I’ve read all of your posts and just don’t have time to respond to them individually.  With respect, you are very confused about  the Church – there is only  ONE Church, founded by Christ, and it was He who pronounced Peter to be “the rock” upon  which He would build His Church.

    Here is a  link  which I hope you will find helpful.
    http://www.catholicfidelity.com/apologetics-topics/misc/against-the-reformers-by-st-alphonsus-mary-de-liguori/

    Also, if you visit the Catholic Truth website and click on the Ecumenism page, you will find  a very  clear statement from St Francis de Sales, Doctor of the Church, to  the effect that  the  very notion of “reforming” Christ’s Church is outrageous. 

    Christ did not  found His Church on a Bible but on Peter, the Rock, our first Pope.  The bible as we know it, was not available for 15 centuries after Christ, when printing presses  came to be, so it is unthinkable that Our Lord meant His followers to wait until then before living the Christian life.  He made no mention of the New Testament scriptures because they were not  written then and although they were  completed by  the end of the first century  (despite what some modernist biblical “scholars” claim) they were not, as I’ve already said, available until the 15/16 centuries and even then, not widely so.   There is nowhere in Scripture, old or new, that speaks of the Protestant doctrine of “sola scriptura” (Scripture alone) – it was the Catholic Church which gave us the Bible and the Protestant version has a number of books taken out, for that  reason -  they contained Catholic doctrines which the so called reformers rejected.

    You’ve taken Protestant propaganda as, literally, Gospel truth. Don’t.

    God bless you.