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Bishop Davies knows that we can talk to young people about their immortal souls. Bishop Conry says it can’t be done. Which one should we trust?

There’s a gulf of understanding here: and a choice to be made

By on Friday, 16 December 2011

Pilgrims in adoration of the Blessed Sacrament at the Madrid World Youth Day (Photo: PA)

Pilgrims in adoration of the Blessed Sacrament at the Madrid World Youth Day (Photo: PA)

Well, Bishop Mark Davies of Shrewsbury, who as I have noted before in this column looks like being the real Episcopal McCoy, has now been duly blooded by being somewhat ineffectually done over by the Tablet (both in print and online).

The Tablet, of course, isn’t what it was in the days when it could rely on its chief attack dog, the late Peter Hebblethwaite, to give a good old-fashioned Rottweiler savaging to those he perceived as being enemies of the post-conciliar enlightenment. Being attacked by the poor old pill these days is a bit like the response elicited, in 1978, by an attack on Labour economic policies by Sir Geoffrey Howe, which you will remember was swatted away by the then Chancellor, Denis Healey, with the legendary quip that an attack from the quietly spoken Sir Geoffrey was “like being savaged by a dead sheep”.

It is still worthwhile, however, to inquire exactly what it was that Bishop Davies had actually said, that attracted the Pill’s watery ire. You can read his whole (I think inspiring) address here; but the offending remarks appear to have been a frank appraisal of how completely secular values set us apart from the society in which we as English Catholics are living today. He has already, in his introductory remarks, spoken of the centrality of the Mass – to a Youth 2000 congregation which he would have known was already firmly attuned to his message:

Our coming to Him and His coming to us is for real, so that every Sunday becomes in this way Easter, Christmas, Christ’s Mass for us. In Blessed John Paul’s striking phrase, “as it was there, so it is here”. For the bread and wine we will place on this altar after the words of consecration are spoken, His words “This is my Body, This is my Blood,” are no longer bread or wine but Christ our Lord Himself given for us. And once we know and recognise this we would never fail to find our way here at the beginning of every new week of our lives.

The words which particularly attracted the distaste of the Tabletistas appear to have been these:

What I want to say to you today echoes what Pope Benedict said at World Youth Day in Cologne, “do not be deterred from taking part in Sunday Mass, and help others to discover it too … Let us pledge ourselves to do this – it is worth the effort!” (Marienfeld August 21 2005). For never since the days of persecution have so many obstacles been put in front of a generation to prevent you finding your way to Him. And it isn’t so much Sunday working, Sunday shopping, social lives which block out Saturday nights and Sunday mornings but losing sight of Jesus Himself which eclipses Sunday, not knowing where He is found which leaves it empty. It isn’t the incidentals of music or style which draws or deters you from finding your way to Him. Those things may help or hinder us but they’re not why we’re ever here. We are here because we know in the words of St. John Vianney that “He is here, the One who loves us so much He is here.” May we find our way to Him where we know He will always be found.

Interesting, is it not, that a counter-secular vision deriving so powerfully from a sacramental perception of reality should have made the Tabletistas so uncomfortable? I am reliant on Protect the Pope for an account of Bishop Kieran Conry’s criticism of Bishop Davies’s analysis, since it occurs in an interview in the print edition of the Tablet – a publication which I won’t have in the house (in case my wife, grandchildren or the servants are corrupted by it). The Tablet had obviously solicited Bishop Conry’s remarks (“go on, Kieran, have a go at him, give us some quotes”):

Bishop Kieran Conry of Arundel and Brighton disagreed that society was hostile to people practising their faith. “It’s easy to think that we are privileged to have the biggest challenge ever,” he explained. “A Catholic historian editing Jesuit correspondence from the 18th century said that a recurring theme was that this was the most difficult period the Church has had to live through,” he said. “I think that our society is indifferent and uninformed, rather than hostile.”
The bishop also questioned whether older Catholics could be blamed for failing to pass on the faith. “We have had many generations that learned their ‘faith’ in terms of catechism content, but can we say that they ever really understood and therefore were in a position to pass on their ‘faith’?” he said. “Moreover, the present generation is more critical and independent, more confident in many ways than we were at that age, and less socially conditioned – obedience is not a word you hear used a lot. It was when I was young.”

The fact is, of course, that the “generations that learned their ‘faith’ in terms of catechism content” nearly though not quite came to an abrupt end 30 years ago, precisely because of the likes of Bishop Conry. This, don’t forget, is the prelate who once proposed a liturgy designed to appeal to young people, suggestions for which included distributing tips on high-energy light bulbs, handing out Fairtrade chocolate and, in a list of things to be sorry for in the penitential rite, leaving water in your kettle. This is the prelate who told this newspaper: “You can’t talk to young people about salvation. What’s salvation? What does salvation mean? My eternal soul? You can only talk to young people in young people’s language, really. And if you’re going to talk to them about salvation, the first thing they will understand is saving the planet. You’re talking about being saved and they will say: ‘What about saving the planet?’” When asked by Andrew M Brown of this newspaper (you can still read the whole interview on Fr Z’s website, with his priceless “fisk”, here) whether it was a good idea to go to sacramental confession, Bishop Conry proceeded to deliver himself of the following priceless utterance:

No, because my own experience when we had Confession every day at St Chad’s Cathedral in Birmingham was that regular penitents came back with exactly the same words week after week. So there you would say, actually, there is no conversion taking place.

This, it will easily be perceived, is precisely where you end up if you begin with the idea that the real problem posed by the modern world is indifference rather than a vision of life which is so utterly incompatible with the Church’s sacramental vision of human existence that it requires a quantum leap, the leap of faith, to arrive at the place that God wants us to be – a place where there is indeed forgiveness for sin and the fullness of redemption.

This is what Bishop Davies has understood. That the gulf between the sacramental vision and the secular is so wide, so hard to cross, that it is indeed right to speak to the young of the obstacles which have been put in front of their generation to prevent them “finding [their] way to Him”. The “days of persecution” were at least about the nature of faith: if you really believed, in this country, that (in Bishop Davies’s words), “the bread and wine we will place on this altar after the words of consecration are spoken, His words ‘This is my Body, This is my Blood,’ are no longer bread or wine but Christ our Lord Himself given for us”, then you were more likely to be persecuted: if you denied this, you were more likely to be a persecutor. But you knew at least that faith was a reality. The “indifference” of which Bishop Conry speaks so lightly – an indifference which can, he thinks, be dispelled by inspirational talk of “saving the planet” and not leaving water in your kettle – is in fact a deadly, faith-dispelling virus. But those who think like Bishop Davies know that this virus can be cured, by the great spiritual antibiotic of the sacraments. I think of that extraordinary spectacle, at the closing Mass of the World Youth Day in Madrid, of over a million (some said as many as two million) young people kneeling in the mud, in adoration before the Blessed Sacrament. No more, surely, need be said: quod erat, it seems to me, demonstrandum.

Bishop Davies understands very well that it is indeed possible to talk to young people about “My immortal soul”, and to meet with a ready response. Bishop Conry says it can’t be done. Which one should we trust?

  • Anonymous

    I am 100% Catholic but, Catholics reading this should look away now because they are not going to like what I am going to say.

    I am afraid that the stark truth is that if you want to find out how to evangelise a young person then you’d better go and speak to a protestant, evangelical, or pentecostal youth worker because people as enlightened, in the English Catholic Church, as Bishop Davies are few and far between.

    We really ought to send off Bishop Kieran ‘it can’t be done’ Conry to Mike Pilavatchi who might teach him a thing or two about proclaiming the Word of God and saving souls for the Kingdom.

    Bishop Kieran Conry should be ashamed of himself and should know better than this non-sense!

  • Anonymous

    While I’m at it we need to dispatch the present batch of Catholic youth workers and bring back some Catholics with some real zeal for the job.

    Dr. Oddie mentions large scale adoration. Some-one called Anna Maria Vesey was the first person to bring large scale Adoration to the Catholic youth of this country. I hope she will not mind me saying that I am sure that she (and other youth workers around at the time) would not put up with the present bunch of insipid workers who have no zeal for the job what-so-ever.

    I would make an exception of Youth 2000 which does a very good job, and is most importantly faithful to the magisterium in its work.

  • Anonymous

    In relation to:

    This is the prelate who told this newspaper: “You can’t talk to young
    people about salvation. What’s salvation? What does salvation mean? My
    eternal soul? You can only talk to young people in young people’s
    language, really. And if you’re going to talk to them about salvation,
    the first thing they will understand is saving the planet. You’re
    talking about being saved and they will say: ‘What about saving the
    planet?’”

    I say that Bishop Conry’s time is now up. He is obviously deluded.

    THIS MAN IS A DANGER TO YOUNG CATHOLICS!

  • Anonymous

    Bishop Conry’s comments on whether it was a good idea to go to sacramental confession,

    No, because my own experience when we had Confession every day at St
    Chad’s Cathedral in Birmingham was that regular penitents came back with
    exactly the same words week after week. So there you would say,
    actually, there is no conversion taking place.

    He really is a DANGER to ALL Catholics.

  • Anonymous

    Dear Catholic Herald,

    Please do not report anything in the next 2 weeks about how another English Bishop has messed up yet again (especially +VIN).

    I do not think my blood pressure can take any more.

  • Dissenter

    I agree with Bishop Conry – society today is indifferent, apathetic even and in fact the only religious hostility I have received has been from fellow Catholics during my talks on the New Translation! Young people are open to discussion but the problem in the Church today is that most adults have been sacramentalised but most have not evangelised. We know all the rules (the Catechism) just as the Pharisees did but we don’t have a full personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Therefore we find it difficult to espuse our faith because all we can tell people are the rules rather than the love that Jesus has for each one of us.

    Bishop Conry clearly recognises the problem (as has Pope Benedict) and he has brought together a team of people to try and evangelise though the Crossing the Threshold project.

    I also find it is unhelpful that the Catholic Herald should set one Bishop against another. The kind of division this establishes in the Church is clearly the work of the devil himself. Better to bring the two Bishops together for a healthy discussion and report the areas in which they agree than establish a discussion in which the faithful will take sides against each other. We are supposed to be a community making up one body!

  • Anonymous

    Bishop Conry is a danger because there is no way under his tenure as Head of Evangelisation and Catechises that anyone is going to have a personal relationship with Christ (as you quite rightly suggest that people should have).

    Why?

    Because unlike Bishop Davies, he seems to have no concept that the barriers can be overcome. This is an extremely worrying standpoint for some one in his position to have.

  • Anonymous

    Bishop Conry like Bishop Nichols sound like a woolly thinking shepherd.
    These liberal lefty clerics do not inspire anybody. Their liberalism is the exit door from faith.
    Why can we not have inspiring clerics who can robustly boast about Christ and His holiness as St Paul says?
    If these people had a personal relationship with Christ they would be itching to proclaim the Good News to all, young and old alike
    I am sometimes led to conclude they have lost their faith in Christ and His gospel and are only self serving officials

  • Anatinus Sapientiae

    “You can’t talk to young people about salvation.”
    Damn – if only someone had told St. Paul that – all this Christianity stuff would have died out within about 30 years and we could have made a start on saving the planet 1900 years sooner.

    OR we could just trust in God to give us the words, the means and the grace to overcome all of those obstacles.

    You know… God?
    Big beard in the sky?
    No..?

    Hmm…

  • Anon

    Things looking up! A good address by Bishop Davies and also a recognition that it helps to have mission explicated:- fair trade wine on the Christmas table…

  • Tiddles the Cat

    Bishop Conry, by the looks and sounds of it, is a defeatist, does not credit the young with the intelligence and insight God has given them.

    I would trust Bishop Mark Davies with everything I have, both spiritual and secular.

    When it comes to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, being an excellent and fearless shepherd who is neither condescending or patronising to the souls in his care –  alongside the Pope, Bishop Mark Davies wipes the floor with the likes of Conry and Nichols. He talks to the youth on their level – he made a noteable impact on World Youth Day in Madrid.

    Is this guff in the Tablet anything to do with the fact that people are taking Bishop Davies more seriously than the others, that he’s making very positive waves, is the breath of fresh air that the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales… and that it’s threatening their wishy-washy, bargain bucket version of our faith called Catholic-Lite?

    Keep strong, keep robust, keep our faith UNDILUTED and keep the fire of faith burning, Bishop Mark.

    Don’t change a thing!

  • StPeter

    Why is it Bishop Conry is used to attack good Bishops, now Bishop Davies previously he has made public criticism of Bishop Patrick O’Donaghue on his Fit for Mission documents. If it wasn’t for his criticism of the Papal  Liturgy at Westminster one might assume he was the attack dog of the Bishop’s Conference, set to snarl at anyone who had a vision or idea outside of that of the narrow stranglehold of the Magic Circle.
    One might assume that, but then listening to him preach, his pastoral letters, how he says Mass, one is met by a spew of of negativity and of barely suppressed anger. 
    He is not actually a nice man!

  • W Oddie

    It’s not the Herald who has “set one Bishop against another”: it’s the Tablet, willingly aided and abetted by Bishop Conry. Do get your facts straight, please. “Unhelpful” be damned. 

  • Tiddles the Cat

    One more thing… when those liberal bullies are threatened, they get nasty.

    Don’t forget the truth in the slogan – those who can, do; those who can’t bully.

    Bishop Mark definitely CAN!!!

  • Parasum

    “The “indifference” of which Bishop Conry speaks so lightly – an indifference which can, he thinks, be dispelled by inspirational talk of “saving the planet” and not leaving water in your kettle – is in fact a deadly, faith-dispelling virus.”

    ## That is why indifferentism is a sin, and why the Assisi meetings are an abomination crying to Heaven for vengeance. Short of sacrificing a virgin to Lucifer, Prince of Darkness  upon the High Altar of St.Peter’s, the Popes responsible for those meetings could hardly have done worse.

    Sorry if that seems a bit sulphurous, but what is sauce for episcopal geese is most definitely sauce for Papal ganders. Those Popes would have loved C.S. Lewis’ “Tashlan” character – *very* ecumenical. Catholicism is dangerously close to falling over into Tashlanism :(

  • Laurence England

     Oh this is hard one. Eenie, meenie, meinie mo. I’ll go with the new guy!

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    A very good summary of the quality of Modernist thought! Thanks!

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Since reading in Christian Order some years ago that the now Bishop Kieran Conry was spotted by walking hand in hand around Rome with a female just prior to being made a Bishop (never refuted, not even when reported again in Catholic Truth)  I don’t pay the slightest bit of attention to what he says.  And this is so obvioulsy a ridiculous thing to say that I’m glad I made that decision.

    Educational psychologists will tell you that you can teach a child ANYTHING at ANY age as long as it is thought through carefully enough by the teacher.

    Oh and I don’t recall Bishop Conry saying you can’t teach children about “sex” – but then I sometimes go out for lunch.

  • Athanasius

    But isn’t he being
    lined up for Liverpool? All the stuff he’s
    said to be doing – eg the originator of the idea to bring back Friday abstinence;
    getting involved in the New Evangelisation; Catechetics etc – all this will be
    made to look good on his CV, passed off to the Nuncio and bob’s your uncle: the
    last Metropolitan See gets filled by another member of the magic circle. Meanwhile,
    Shrewsbury will
    continue to be guided by the Good Shepherd.

    I’m sure +Conry’s a
    ‘nice man’, but he’s not a Catholic bishop in the mould of Bishop Davies. I
    suspect, though, that the good bishop Davies will not want all this publicity,
    nor be set up against a fellow member of the Episcopal bench.

    Jesus, convert England!

  • Nicolas Bellord

    What puts me off going to mass on Sundays is the possibility that we might have a pastoral letter from Bishop Conry causing me to faint through drastic drop in blood pressure.  Fortunately I managed to be away in Tunbridge Wells for his latest.

  • http://cumlazaro.blogspot.com/ Lazarus

    ‘We know all the rules…’ I’m not sure ‘we’ do -and even if we do, ‘we’ certainly don’t know the reasons for them. A lot depends on what you mean by ‘a full personal relationship with Jesus’: if you mean a lively faith with a genuine love for (eg) the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, fine. If you mean the sort of matey imaginings that lead the Church of Latter Day Snake Handlers (Continuing) to secede from the Church of Latter Day Snake Handlers (Episcopal Methodist), or allow you to ignore any moral rules you find inconvenient, then not fine.

  • Rick Jones

    They are always excruciating.

    The first few didn’t mention God. Then there was the one that recommended we go to Broke Back Mountain, there was that one that spoke of the evils of the cut flower. Then there was the one on Confession, followed by one correcting its heresies, then the next correcting the heresies in that one.

    The last was a bit of secondary school economics, turning upside down the parable of the talents in which investment was presented as a sin!

    My PP is a pretty bad preacher but at least he has something to say, unlike Bishop Conry.

    In charge of Evangelisation: who is having a joke?

  • South Saxon

    +Kieran lined up for Liverpool? This would bring much joy to us in Arundel and Brighton

  • Anonymous

    “No, because my own experience when we had Confession every day at St Chad’s Cathedral in Birmingham was that regular penitents came back with exactly the same words week after week. So there you would say, actually, there is no conversion taking place.”

    The man’s an utter idiot. How is that someone who has reached the rank of bishop cannot understand the point of confession? We are human, we fall. Confession is there to help us to get up again. It has to be regular, and yes, it will always be the same sins because people always struggle with the same ongoing demons. I don’t see how he can have musinderstood so spectacularly.

  • Anonymous

    Conry? Liverpool? Dear God, no!

    I heard that Davies may go to Liverpool, and let’s pray it’s true and that other decent bishops will be appointed to those sees vacant or soon to be so to replace the dead hands of their predecessors…Plymouth, Portsmouth, East Anglia, Salford…

  • Profidebookstore

    The “rules” and the “love” go together, and are interdependent.
    In the gospels, the former take much more place than the latter, which is
    itself presented as the rule.

    Bishop claims that “regular penitents came back with
    exactly the same words week after week. “

    If that is really established fact of personal experience
    how can he fail to see that those who were coming week after week were trying
    to control themselves relying on the Sacrament of Mercy instead of giving
    themselves up to resignation? God alone knows to what extent they were
    personally guilty. And what about those who were not coming at all?

     

    None of us can claim to have a “full personal
    relationship with Jesus Christ” that can be distinguished from self-illusion,
    similar to that of the Pharisee, whatever sophisticated cliché we use to rationalize
    our ways. Wasn’t that tax official closer to God than the present elite which
    claims to “know all the rules”, while it knows only some, and ignores even
    them. Isn’t the unjustified lack of knowledge of  

    Faith actully the sin of omission?

  • GFFM

    It is indeed quite possible to talk with young people about their immortal souls–they yearn for such discussions and books, art, film which explore salvation and faith. I teach undergraduates and there is little doubt that they think about the essential questions and issues  on a daily basis. So many of them come from very troubled family situations–they naturally resonate toward the humane. For Churchmen not to be honest with them and instead to try to be “relevant’ is complete condescension. Furthermore, young people see through the “relevance,” and write such drivel off–as they should.  Christ certainly didn’t teach this way and neither should his successors.

  • GFFM

    By the way Bishop Conroy’s observations reek of condescension toward how my mother’s generation learned the faith firstly through the catechism. 

  • jameshughes1947

    Not just England please . We north of the border deserve a better deal too. It’s time that the input to the process for recommendation for the appointment of bishops should be made more transparent. I am not suggesting some kind of mob acclaim but we really must get away from the “magic circle ” mentality. Who are in this magic circle anyway? We are still awaiting the appointment of a new archbishop of Glasgow and I must say that some of the contenders mentioned, if appointed , will see me move to Rome for the good of my soul not to mention my sanity. Maybe what we need is a touch of Henry VIII and the tower!

  • jameshughes1947

    Seems that Conry set himself against his brother bishop. God preserve us from yet more intellectual BS about “sacramentalised but not evangelised” . How does Dissenter know about the personal relationship of a man with his God and how can you have one without at least some knowledge or insight as to the rules. After all Christ did not come to destroy the law. This sounds like yet another trendy lets form a committee and whitewash over the real issues. Conry and co. are a real threat to the members of Christ’s church!  

  • jameshughes1947

    I venture that as catholics we need the likes of the tablet to stir us up from time to time but we should always keep a bucket of water handy to dampen the fires if they get too carried away.  Trust in god and he will take care of the wishy washy crowd . He will not desert us in our hour of need. AMDG

  • jameshughes1947

    As a Scot could someone please tell me who the hell is in this magic circle . I have a feeling we have one in Scotland so perhaps we could identify it and kill it off. I want my church back from the trendies!

  • A@B bod

    ..he is softly spoken. Does that count as a positive?

  • Annie

    How well I remember the Brokeback Mountain pastoral letter…

  • Johnny

    Doesn’t even send Christmas cards to his clergy either. He doesn’t like them and they seem to have little in common with him, they would be the first to dance on the altar if he should go to Liverpool.

    - So I’m told.

  • Shoran

    I think you’re the one who comes off worse, Mr Oddie. All this adolescent “Pill”, “Tabletista” stone throwing is diminishing. It sounds like besieged sniping: the Peoples Front of Judaea.

    You’re a bright man. Make your points like a civilised, confident, charitable member of the Church.

  • Tiddles the Cat

    I understand where you’re coming from but…

    … if it is true that +Kieran Conry is being lined up for Liverpool, heck! Haven’t the people of Liverpool suffered enough?

  • Tiddles the Cat

    I so concur with you, jameshughes1947.

    There is never a better time than now for us to pray to God the Holy Ghost for The Holy Father and the Roman Catholic Church.

    There is a hosepipe connected to the ice cold water tap, rather than a bucket close by, to dampen the inferno the likes of The Tablet and so called cafeteria Catholics who give the media the impression that they speak for the church.

    More fool them!

  • Tiddles the Cat

    You are soooo at the wrong end of the stick, buddy!

  • Tiddles the Cat

    Mr Oddie is NOT stonethrowing nor sniping – and that condescending, invalidating remark you made quote: ‘charitable member of the Church’ is the equivalent of throwing a brick through his window then asking for it back!

    And typical of people who don’t want to acknowledge the facts nor get real about the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

  • South Saxon

    We in A and B  have also been in the tender care of the “magic circle” since 1977: first +Cormac and then +Kieran. Perhaps our faith is being tested while we await a shepherd who is loyal to the magisterium.

  • Anonymous

    “No, because my own experience when we had Confession every day at St Chad’s Cathedral in Birmingham was that regular penitents came back with exactly the same words week after week. So there you would say, actually, there is no conversion taking place.”

    How does someone reach the position of bishop with absolutely no understanding of confession? Of course people say the same things every week! We are human and fail and fall and we always struggle with the same demons. We are helped to get up again by confession. It has to be regular or those sins become even more entrenched. Conry showed with that comment that he is one of the very worst of this country’s bishops, and given their general calibre that’s something.

  • Dissenter

    May I respectfully point out that the proper name for the universal Church is not the Roman Catholic
    Church. Far from it. That term caught on mostly in English-speaking countries;
    it was promoted mostly by Anglicans, supporters of the “branch theory” of the
    Church, namely, that the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church of the creed
    was supposed to consist of three major branches, the Anglican, the Orthodox and
    the so-called Roman Catholic. It was to avoid that kind of interpretation that
    the English-speaking bishops at Vatican I succeeded in warning the Church away
    from ever using the term officially herself: It too easily could be
    misunderstood.

    See: http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb3.htm for more information.

  • http://twitter.com/tsavogadfly Marcella Carmen C.

    I was delighted to read this.  Thank you for the article.  Bishop Davies is to be lauded and Bishop Conroy to be pitied.  I meet dozens of young people in my work, and the ignorance, and yes, indifference, of RC children still in RC schools is depressing…  On the heads of the likes of Bishop Conroy will the eternities of these chilren, quite possibly, be laid…

  • http://twitter.com/tsavogadfly Marcella Carmen C.

    What about the Legion of Mary?  It needs young blood, and a lot more support at parish priest level.  Those who ignore it are ignoring a precious tool to help them in the task of evangelising so many parishes blighted by poor catechesis, and indifferent priests, priests who seem to not believe the Gospel, who seem dead set against the idea that they could possibly be called upon to work the same miracles Our Lord did.  Yet He said His true followers would be known for great works, including great miracles!

  • Kevin

    The Prayer of the Conciliar Church (Anno Concilii 1):

    “Where there is forgiveness, may we bring indulgence,
    Where there is hope, may we bring licence,
    Where there is grace, may we bring ignorance,
    Where there is law, may we bring desuetude,
    Where there is no law, may we bring new custom,
    And where there is tradition, may we bring mortal sin.”

  • Kevin

    The Prayer of the Conciliar Church (Anno Concilii 1):

    “Where there is forgiveness, may we bring indulgence,
    Where there is hope, may we bring licence,
    Where there is grace, may we bring ignorance,
    Where there is law, may we bring desuetude,
    Where there is no law, may we bring new custom,
    And where there is tradition, may we bring mortal sin.”

  • Kerry

    It saddens me to read the comments here-there has to be room for genuine debate on issues of our times and what is Catholic about anything that has been written here? Many of the comments made are a poor reflection of the Gospel message which is one of God’s love, forgiveness and the people he spoke to most harshly were those who thought themselves righteous. May the spirit of truth, love and forgiveness guide and direct us in proclaiming the Gospel of Christ and let us always be aware that truth lies beyond all of us-no one has it in its fullness.

  • P Cannon

    The only person who should be ashamed is Bishop Davies. Is he leading our young people by example? is he being “Christ like”. Would Christ have treated people in such an appalling way. Sacking the lowest paid whilst keeping on those who are paid £90,00 per year. Why is he sacking them? it is clearly not to save money when he is spending an astronomical sum on bringing a relic to the UK that most people including most priests do not wish to venerate.

  • P Cannon

    Faithful to the magisterium or faithful to the teachings of Christ. Which