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Mormonism is not a Christian religion

Mormons live exemplary lives but their religion has nothing to do with Christianity

By on Wednesday, 11 April 2012

Mormon Mitt Romney, almost certain to be the GOP candidate in November Photo: Alex Brandon/AP/Press Association Images

Mormon Mitt Romney, almost certain to be the GOP candidate in November Photo: Alex Brandon/AP/Press Association Images

Now that his main rival Rick Santorum has pulled out, it now seems safe to say that Mitt Romney has the Republican nomination in the bag. This means that come November we shall have an election where a Mormon is pitched against an incumbent President, who many Americans believe to be, contrary to all evidence, a Muslim. Great choice, eh?

Barak Obama is not and has never been a Muslim, yet this crazy belief persists; however, the American public seems able to let Mitt’s Mormonism pass. There is a reason for this. While Islam is seen as the religion of the other, Mormonism is in fact a home-grown religion, rooted in the American continent, and rooted in American experience. Say what you like about Joseph Smith Junior, the prophet of Mormonism, but his was a typical American story.

But what this obscures is the fact that, despite their protestations to the contrary, Mormonism is not a Christian religion. It is not even a Christian heresy. It is a religion that has no real connection with Jesus Christ, except at a semantic level. It has been allowed to pass itself off as another manifestation of American Protestantism – some Catholics have been remarkably lax on this front – but it is nothing of the sort, denying as it does the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith – the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, and the exclusivity of revelation in Christ. Oddly enough, Mormonism is further from Christianity than Islam itself. There are indeed interesting parallels between the two. 

Mormonism is based on an audacious forgery, the Book of Mormon. Quite a few American Baptists have undertaken missions to the Mormons to convert them to Christianity and to bring them to see that the Bible itself needs no further books added to it.  I myself have read the Book of Mormon and found it tedious in the extreme. However, I fully recognise that Mormons themselves live exemplary lives. I have no quarrel with the practice of the Mormonism; I have a huge problem with its underlying claims, which are demonstrably false.

There is no room to demonstrate their falsity here; suffice it to say that the claim that Jesus came to America after his resurrection has no historical or archaeological basis; neither does any of the pseudo-history of the Book of Mormon; and no archaeological evidence for it has been found, despite decades of looking for it. 

So we are faced with the prospect of an American president who believes in things that no rational person should possibly believe in: a faith that denies reason. Odd how Rick Santorum, the neoAristotelian, was never treated with the same deference.

  • https://openid.org/locutus LocutusOP

    “…the prospect of an American president who believes in things that no rational person should possibly believe in”

    Isn’t that what we already have?

  • David Lindsay

    The fullness of Christianity does indeed
    include priesthood, a high theology of baptism, a living Teaching Office
    focused in a person on this earth, an intercessory relationship between those
    on this side of bodily death and those on the other side of it, and so much
    else besides.

    But it is not Mormonism.

  • JabbaPapa

    One group of Mormons had the sheer audacity to perform one of their post-mortem “baptisms” for Jesus of Nazareth !!!!!!!!!

    Individually, Mormons can be great people (even spiritual people) — collectively, their religion is nothing more than blasphemy piled upon heresy.

    Their notion that every single Mormon has prophetic powers and authority is just about as intellectually incoherent as is humanly possible.

  • Dandini

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS/Latter-day Saints/saints/nicknamed: “mormon”) does have the foundational doctrines – the trinity, the divinity of Christ, and the exclusivity of revelation in Christ.

    The LDS Church teaches and believes that there is God the Father, His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost as our Godhead or trinity, but it does not follow the “Trinity” as described by the numerous “Creeds” not found written anywhere in the Holy Bible which were developed several hundreds of years after the last Apostle by a council of men selected and guided by the Roman Emperor Constantine to consolidate his power, and who was not a baptized Christian till he was on his death bed.

    The LDS Church teaches and believes that Jesus the Christ was the only begotten Son of God, born of a virgin, Mary, in Bethlehem, that he suffered and died on the cross for all mankind, that he resurrected and lives, that he is Lord, Savior and Redeemer for all mankind.

    The LDS Church teaches and believes in continuing revelation from God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the presence of the Holy Ghost.

    If you really want to know more…

    http://www.lds.org and/or http://www.mormon.org

    If you really want to know more…

  • Dandini

    Guess the author of this article does not study culture much, as the claim that Jesus came to America after his resurrection has “no historical” or archaeological basis would be inconclusive in light of …

    Native American’s have many legends/traditions from about the 1st century, of a mysterious, bearded visitor from across the oceans.  The universal image of this man is that he is depicted as an influential religious leader, light-skinned (often referred to as white-skinned), robed man and occurs in ancient myth among numerous Indian peoples from South America to North America.  Maybe that was why Cortez was heralded by Montezuma as the “returning bearded white god” and Cook was thought of in same way in the Hawaiian Islands.His story is found most frequently in North American legends, which reveal more information about his appearance and the nature of his arrival.  In Middle and South America, he was known respectively, as the “Feathered Serpent” (the Mayas’ Kukulcan and Aztec Quetzalcoatl), and “Sea Foam”, Kon-Tiki- Viracocha, to the Incas.  North of the Rio Grande River, he is generally referred to as East Star Man, Peace Maker, Pale One, Dawn Star, etc.Native accounts tell of his arrival from the direction of the rising sun, after which he set up a “council” of selected men from among his followers.  They were said to have controlled forces of nature, healed the sick and instituted new moralistic laws, and blood sacrifice was forbidden.  Among many eastern tribes, East Star Man is regarded as the son of the Great Spirit, the Creator.  After traveling throughout the Americas, and being given the title of The Healer, The Prophet, The God of Wind And Water, he departed from their land, with the promise that he would return in the future.  Hence the Native Americans fascination when the early Spanish and European explorers arrived, thinking they were “gods”.

  • Dandini

    RE: It is a religion that has no real connection with Jesus Christ, except at a semantic level…

    National Study of Youth and Religion, 2005, UNC, Chapel Hill (U.S. Adolescents Ages 13-17)  – The Study found that Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) youth were more likely to exhibit Christian characteristics than Evangelicals (the next most observant group)

    A national 2010 Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life survey aimed to test a broad range of religious knowledge, including understanding of the Bible, core teachings of different faiths and major figures in religious history:  on questions about Christianity and the Bible, Mormons scored the highest.  They also scored second only to Jews in knowledge of Judaism.  [Overall, Mormons understand their own doctrines and the Bible better than other Christian denominations.]

    2012 Pew released a National Survey of the mormons - Looking at basic, core religious beliefs, 98 percent say they believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ… While previous surveys have clearly established LDS agreement with certain key Christian doctrines — 90 percent of Mormons believe in God, 91 percent believe the Bible is the word of God and 98 percent believe in life after death… 

    …just a few of the many surveys and research documented reports supporting the fact that LDS live as Christ taught

    … so the “assumption” made by the author of this article that LDS are merely Christian at a semantic level, is without merit and honest research…

    If you want to really know more…

    http://www.lds.org and/or http://www.mormon.org

    If you really want to know more

  • JabbaPapa

    ooooh FFS — post something about Mormonism, and **bingo!** along comes a Mormon with his propaganda…

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS/Latter-day
    Saints/saints/nicknamed: “mormon”) does have the foundational doctrines –
    the trinity, the divinity of Christ, and the exclusivity of revelation
    in Christ.

    Mormons are henotheists, therefore pagans — the doctrines of Mormonism directly contradict the Trinity, directly contradict several thousands of years worth of Revelation from God, claim that God and Jesus are some kind of magic supermen devoid of what is ordinarily understood as constituting divinity, redefine the words God, divine, divinity, and so on to mean things that are inherently incompatible with their dictionary definitions, etc etc

    And to top it off, Mormonism teaches that doctrinal hypocrisy is some kind of fundamental magic Get Out Of Jail Free card whenever the most utterly objectionable mormon teachings get themselves ridiculed by anyone. Yeah — just say “ooooh no, that’s those bad mormons over there, I’m a good mormon, I’m not like *those* guys !!!”

    You people directly deny and contradict several foundational religious teachings of the Christ. It is not possible to legitimately claim to be followers of Christ in that sense.

    Mormonism claims **directly** that it is legitimate to contradict the teachings of the Christ on the basis of whichever so-called “revelation” happens to be floating around in whichever individual mormon’s head at whichever particular moment.

    Mormonism can be described as the pseudo-spiritualisation of each individual Mormon’s egotism.

  • JabbaPapa

    What an insane mish-mash of ludicrous pseudo-religious syncretism !!!

  • JabbaPapa

    Any Millennialist Biblical Literalists are bound to get high % scores in such an obviously biased survey.

    This does not magically vanish away the profoundly erroneous nature of Millennialist Biblical Literalism.

  • Dandini

    Jabba – your first statement is a lie without any support in regards to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints… sad that you would pretend to be a true Christian…

    LDS believe the Bible regarding baptism by proxy for the dead… and especially if you believe in the importance of baptism by water… as stated

    “…Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God…” (John 3:5)

    Christ being baptized in water to “fulfill all righteousness…” and the Disciples always looking to baptize where there is “much water”.

    Baptism for the dead by proxy is historically documented to have been a practice of some early Christian sects… 

    it is historically documented that it was forbidden as a practice around the end of the 4th century by the Church of Rome…

    it is documented in the Holy Bible where there is intense discussion of the resurrection and it’s truthfulness…  

    “…Else what shall they do who are baptized for the dead if the dead rise not at all?   Why are they then baptized for the dead?… ” (1 Corinthians 15:29)   

    and supported by a previous Bible statement…  

    “…If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable…”   (1 Cor 15:17-19)

    If you want to know more…

    http://www.lds.org and/or http://www.mormon.org

    If you really want to know more…

  • Lbk

    Last Sunday I sat in my Mormon congregation and basked in the Spirit as the service focused on the life, majesty and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. All of the 300 congregants in that congregation came away with a greater love for the Savior and a greater desire to follow Him and accept Him. It was pure joy. That was not just because it was Easter, every meeting is focused on Christ. While pundits, preachers and priests continue to judge our Christianity, we continue to strive to follow Christ…and that’s all that really matters. 

  • Anyotheruser

    “One group of Mormons had the sheer audacity to perform one of their post-mortem “baptisms” for Jesus of Nazareth !!!!!!!!!”

    Sheer fabricated nonsense, considering that the Book of Mormon itself refers to John the Baptist’s baptism of Jesus as justification for why people need to be baptised in the first place (2 Nephi 31).

  • Anyotheruser

    Whether ‘Millennialist Biblical Literalism’ is true or not is beside the point – what is fairly laughable would be to claim that ‘Millennialist Biblical Literalism’ has ‘no real connection with Jesus Christ, except at a semantic level.’

  • JabbaPapa

    Jabba – your first statement is a lie

    Your ignorance is insufficient to demonstrate any such thing.

  • JabbaPapa

    http://blog.mrm.org/2010/07/everyone-needs-lds-temple-ordinances/

    http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2010/06/07/to-jesus-and-mary-now-mormon-and-married-mazel-tov/

    New FamilySearch is the online genealogy database of the LDS Church
    that contains updated details of LDS temple ordinances that have been
    done for dead people. There are multiple listings for Jesus Christ in
    New FamilySearch—under different versions of his identity—which have
    been submitted by individual Mormons. It is not known how many times
    Jesus has been subjected to LDS rites because all New FamilySearch
    records for him—including combined records—show LDS ordinance details as
    “Not Available.”

    On May 27, 2010, there were two similar records for Jesus in New
    FamilySearch which had been submitted by the same person. One listing
    was titled “Jesus Christian,” and showed “Jesus Christian” was born
    “before 1500 Bethlehem, Israel,” and died “before 1550 Jerusalem,
    Israel.” LDS ordinances were tagged as “Not available” on this record.
    The other entry was for “Jesus Cristian,” who was born “before 1502
    Bethlehem, Israel,” and died “before 1539 Jerusalem, Israel.” The entry
    for “Jesus Cristian” gave a description of LDS ordinances, along with
    the name of a spouse—“Maria Magdelena.”

    Jesus Cristian” was baptized and confirmed a member of the LDS
    Church by proxy on April 8, 2010 in the “Salt Lake City Utah Temple.”
    “Jesus Cristian” was also subjected to initiatory temple ordinances on
    April 8, 2010; an endowment ceremony on April 9, 2010; and a marriage
    “sealing” to “spouse” “Maria Magdelena” on April 9, 2010—all rites
    occurred in the “Salt Lake City Utah Temple.

    It appears the submissions for “Jesus Christian,” and “Jesus
    Cristian” were attempts to manipulate the identity of Jesus Christ
    through the LDS temple system. The misspelled “Cristian,” instead of
    “Christian,” could have been a typo, or a deliberate error. It may have
    been intentionally entered as “Cristian” to get around a computer
    program that automatically blocks submissions that contain the names
    “Jesus Christ.” That would explain why the entry for “Jesus Christian”
    shows LDS ordinances as “Not available.”

    While both New FamilySearch records in question lack complete birth
    and death data, and give imprecise “before” years of these events—the
    first name “Jesus” combined with the surnames “Christian” and “Cristian”
    (both spins on the name of “Christ”) are signs that “Jesus Christian”
    and “Jesus Cristian” are pseudonyms for Jesus Christ.

    Other indicators on the New FamilySearch records that point to Jesus
    Christ are the birth place, “Bethlehem,” and the death location,
    “Jerusalem.” (Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem and died outside the
    walls of old Jerusalem.) Another clue to the identity of “Jesus
    Cristian” is the name of his “spouse”—“Maria Magdelena,” a misspelled
    variant of Mary Magdalene. “Maria Magdelena” is not listed on the “Jesus
    Christian” record.

    Because “Jesus Christian” and “Jesus Cristian” have similar names and
    identical birth and death locations—“Bethlehem” and “Jerusalem,” they
    are probably the same person. Their birth and death years are similar,
    but not the same. The estimated dates listed for these events look like
    they have been fabricated. According to their New FamilySearch records,
    “Jesus Christian” and “Jesus Cristian” were born and died in the 16th
    century. “Jesus Christian” lived roughly 50 years, while “Jesus
    Cristian” died in his thirties.

    On May 27, 2010, “Maria Magdelena” was listed in New FamilySearch
    with her birth date as “1504 Israel,” and death date as “before 1540
    Israel.” Both years are likely inventions. Along with “spouse” “Jesus
    Cristian,” “Maria Magdelena” was baptized and confirmed a member of the
    LDS Church by proxy on April 8, 2010 in the “Salt Lake City Utah
    Temple.” She was subjected to initiatory temple ordinances on April 8,
    2010; an endowment ceremony on April 9, 2010; and the marriage “sealing”
    to “Jesus Cristian” on April 9, 2010—all rites were done in the “Salt
    Lake City Utah Temple.”

    Mary Magdalene is described in the New Testament as a faithful
    follower of Jesus.

    Because the concept of marriage is strongly
    emphasized in LDS teachings, the notion that a spousal relationship
    existed between Jesus and Mary Magdalene is common among
    Mormons—although that belief is not formal LDS doctrine. There is no
    reliable historical evidence to indicate that Jesus was married—to Mary
    Magdalene, or anyone else.
    ” 

  • JabbaPapa

     MBL has no such connection — Christ having taught no such thing.

  • http://twitter.com/philoec Nora Smith

     Why certain minds still, in the XXI century, are trying to cover the sun with a finger?
    Jesus did not come to preach a religion of any kind, but He came to call all His creatures to Himself with His glorious Resurrection. In Jesus we’ve seen the Father, our Creator, Who sent Christ to the world -well, this is only for the meek and humble of heart, the prideful will continue re-inventing the wheel.

  • http://twitter.com/philoec Nora Smith

    “Not all who say Lord, Lord will enter into the Kingdom,” says the only Lord of lords and King of kings. So, not anybody, regardless of how well behaved he/she could be is certainly assured the Kingdom, unless his/her heart is focused n reality, Christ and His Church, for one can subsist without the other.
    Pride is the genesis of all mankind’s suffering, yet it is this deadly sin, favorite of many who prefer to defy God and His Teachings to preach their own “gospel” of lies. Jesus has been, is and will be anywhere, yes, including in the Americas, for He is fully God and fully man, a very difficult TRUTH to swallow for new “creators of gods and religions.”

  • Brian Casaday

    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

  • Suzielanders

    OK people, reality check… Christianity was written by self proclaimed profits – pretty much no different than Joseph Smith, only it’s been around for 2000+ years.  

  • Jeannine

    Church of the Latter Day Saints is a cult, no doubt about it. (Please read the story of Cora Evans who was born & raised Mormon and left that church to become Catholic 
    http://www.parishretreat.org/index.php?id=story. Her cause for sainthood has officially been opened.)  And they most certainly do not believe in the Triune God or else the Roman Catholic Church would recognize their baptism as being legitimate as it does w/most other Christian religions.

    That said, one’s religious affiliation would not discount a person’s eligibility to become the American president.  I don’t care whether Romney is Mormon or Obama is Muslim or whatever. I would vote for Mitt Romney over Barack Obama in a heartbeat! I know he will uphold the US Constitution, the supreme law of the country & the only “glue ” that keep a bunch of people from may different lands & cultures united, unlike Obama who calls it a “fundamental flaw of this country…” & is already discounting parts of it.

  • John Jackson

    Thank you.  You are right.  The problem is the moral commitment of Mormons, who act more Christian than many Christians.  The problem is also and American one, one simply does not dare speak the truth about an organisation that has spawned so many successful people and champions family in the way that Mormon’s do.

  • DavidMHart

     “90 percent of Mormons believe in God”

    What? One in every ten Mormons is an atheist? That can’t be right…

  • Parasum

    It is a Christian heresy, but, in the form of an Ancient Near Eastern religion. (It is not the only US-grown heresy-myth – Premillennial Dispensationalism is another one, & IMHO a more dangerous one.) For it is Christianity thoroughly re-mythologised.

    The Mormon “Heavenly Mother” amounts to the Mormon consort of the king of the gods
    Elohim is (with respect to man at least) the king of the gods
    men are “gods in embryo” – they amount to the inferior deities grouped as “sons of the gods”

    The angel Moroni amounts to a heavenly messenger/”interpreting angel” – the *malakh JHWH* is the OT version of the heavenly messenger.

    Like gods of the ANE, Mormon gods – who are exalted men – have bodies of flesh and blood. Humans are meant to become gods, not metaphorically, but really. Elohim is an exalted man, from “an earth” – but apparently not the one we live on. He is not qualitatively different from us – but is more advanced in perfection.

    As to matter – that is as eternal as the gods. It is not created by God, since there is no God; just a lot of gods. Mormonism has an Elohim of flesh & blood, & a Jesus (who was Michael) of flesh and blood. The Holy Spirit OTOH is a “personage of spirit”. This is not the Christian doctrine of the Trinity.

    The notion that Elohim begot Jesus by Mary, as one of his wives, is reminiscent of Zeus, who has a vigorous & prolific sexual life – partly because earlier gods did so. The Mormon belief in Divine polygamy & Divine fornication is enough to prove it is not Christian, but pagan to the core. The doctrine that Jesus married a couple of wives at the wedding in Cana, which was allegedly His wedding, underlines the point. That, not the doctrines of baptism for the dead or continuing revelation or the finality & changeless perfection of the BoM or Smith’s re-writings of parts of Genesis, is what is fatal to the Christian status of Mormonism.  

    As to the election, I don’t think a candidate’s religion, or the absense of it, should be an issue.The candidates aspire to be or to stay President – not Pope, bishop, Grand Mufti, Imam, Rabbi-in-Chief, Prince of Secularists, or Arch-Mage. Or even Revelator, Prophet and Priest.  
     

  • http://twitter.com/sqlrob Rob

    Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

    http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/cath.htm 

    And no evidence? You mean like none of the evidence for the Flood, the Fall, Adam and Eve, Exodus, Creation, contradictory bloodlines and timelines for Christ…

  • http://www.mormon.me.uk/ Dave Sadler

    Could you please expand this article to include some of their key claims which are demonstrably false.
    Like for example…  My Favourite.
    The Book of Abraham – A key part of Mormon Doctrine.  This book was purportedly ‘translated’ by Joseph Smith Jr. from an Egyptian papyrus he bought from a travelling salesman in Kirtland, Ohio in 1835.

    Upon first inspection Joseph claimed one of them was written by Abraham himself “A
    Translation of some ancient Records, that have fallen into our hands
    from the catacombs of Egypt. – The writings of Abraham while he was in
    Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon
    papyrus.”
    These papyrus have since been translated by several respected Egyptologists.

    Surprisingly… The translation by Egyptologists bears no
    resemblance to the text of the Book of Abraham as purportedly ‘translated’
    by Joseph Smith.  And… The papyrus has been dated to 2000 years after the possible time of Abraham.

    Oh, and in response to Dandini… If you really want to know more: http://www.mormon.me.uk

  • Dandini

    Old news… several of the respected Egyptologists were also respected research professors at BYU.., and still are…

    …of course nothing like the fact that no one has any of the original writings by the original authors of any of the Books in the Holy Bible… just copies of copies of copies….

    so does one only believe in what is actual physical proof, or does one believe with faith???

  • Dandini

    One minor disagreement among many minor ones… it should be flesh and bone, as that is how Christ was resurrected in the Bible, with a “glorified” and “incorruptible” body of flesh and bone…

  • Dandini

    Using your logic would be easy… I think they stated that about 57% of members of Catholicism and almost 70% of Evangelicals actually practiced their faith… just to look at a few… so according to your logic that might mean that at least 5 of every 10 from your faith could be construed as true believers… however, best to say that “…by their fruits, ye shall know them…”

  • Dandini

    Because you must not know that Jesus Christ (his name and not the ones that were used) had already been baptized as the Bible states and would have no more need to fulfill that requirement…which is of course taught and believed by LDS.

    Obviously you read and do not see… how many times… the LDS Church tries to keep things from being wrongly done with the Temple records, but it is not a perfect world and there are many who are either malicious or work hard at hacking LDS Church archives to create problems…

  • Jjslypig

    “By their fruits shall ye know them”

  • http://www.mormon.me.uk/ Dave Sadler

    Old news the Mormon Church doesn’t like to share with its members?
    When the actual physical proof does exist there is no need to rely on faith.  In this case Enough of the Papyrus does exist to prove Joseph Smith was nothing but a fraud. – That is to anyone with half an ounce of common sense who hasn’t been totally brainwashed into the evil cult. (ie The Billions of people in the world who reject the religion)

  • kc777

    For a man who claims to be an educated author, you sure show signs of ignorance, especially about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and particularly about the nature of God and our relationship to him. It’s all right. There’s no sin in being ignorant, but don’t claim to know about the Mormons until you give up your prejudices and precepts of men. But then again, mocking is much easier than sincere investigation, isn’t it.

  • Adiutricem

    Try living in Utah for six months, then see if you still think that “Mormons live exemplary lives.” Pay special attention to things like how people of other races are treated, also how women are treated. Look closely at the “no impure things shall enter the temple” like alcohol or caffeine, then square that with the rate of consumption of psychoactive prescription drugs.

    Christians can all answer the simple question “Is Jesus eternal or created?” Even if one gets it wrong, at least there is a right answer. Mormon books actually say both are true.

  • Mario

    I am reminded of the foreword in Martin Gardner’s “Fads and fallacies in the name of science” from the 2nd edition onwards. After the first edition, he received loads of letters telling him what a wonderful book he wrote and how very well he demonstrated how all those things he wrote about were utter nonsense except…. whatever it was the writer believed in. Homeopaths would chide him on the chapter on homeopathy, though they totally agreed with him on i.e. chiropractic. Chiropractors of course would agree that homeopathy was bunkum, but not chiropractic. 
    I also believe there is something in the bible concerning a beam in the eye? That is quite applicable here.

  • Alexander Lucie-Smith

    If my piece contains a factual error, please point it out. I would be happy to correct it!

  • SueC

    Quote …”Jesus (who was Michael)”… Just picking up on one point of the many – Jesus WAS NOT Michael! Michael was Adam. Jesus was and is  the Great Jehovah (YHWH|) of the Old Testament. 

  • DavidMHart

     My faith? I’m not religious at all, I’m just surprised that so many people call themselves Mormons while not believing one of the absolutely core tenets of Mormonism – namely the idea that God actually exists. If you don’t believe in any gods, you are an atheist, whatever you may choose to call yourself.

    Also, there is a big difference between practicing your faith and believing in God; it is my impression that really rather a lot of people believe in the existence of some sort of deity while not taking part in any sort of religious practices like praying, going to church etc.

  • AdamThomson

     And accusations of ignorance are much easier than pointing out factual error.

  • http://www.mormon.me.uk/ Dave Sadler

     In this case, the actual physical proof does exist, so there’s no need to rely on faith.  The Mormons have the relevant Papyrus along with a document called the ‘Egyptian Alphabet’ hand written by Joseph Smith which prove his complete lack of understanding of Egyptian hieroglyphs.

  • Georgina

    It is not really a question of religion – especially because many atheists voted for Obama on the basis that he wasn’t really religious.

    It is a question of early influence and loyalty.

    Obama spent his childhood and formative years outside of America – exposed to a theocratic ideology.
    This has coloured his view of Americans and caused him to look up to, and bow down to, islamic religious leaders.

    The question is, will America remain a secular (church and state divided) country, or will it become a theocracy? Somehow, I don’t see Mitt Romney bowing to anybody.

  • Stan Barker

    Factual errors:
    1. “The Bible itself needs no further books added to it.”
    Response:  I suppose that means that you do not regard anything after Deut. 12:32 as Biblical?  I often wonder about people who claim to be such studious Christians don’t even read their Bible.  To a reasonable person misunderstanding Rev. 22:19 demonstrates a lack of ability to reason.
    2. “and no archaeological evidence for it has been found, despite decades of looking for it.”
    Response:  what that statement demonstrates is a profound lack of reading many old texts that are familiar to many LDS people; such as Dr. Hugh Nibley’s many works on The Book of Mormon (beginning in 1949); Janne M. Schodahl’s profound work, An Introduction to a Study of the Book of Mormon (1927); Echos and Evidence of the Book of Mormon, etc.  I have 5 bookshelves full of books regarding various evidences for the Book of Mormon.  If you have not read at least the material mentioned above, then you know nothing about what has been demonstrated.  By the way, evidences began to be put forth in the mid to late 1800s.  Do you even know and have you read what was made available then?  There is plenty of archaeological evidences for the Book of Mormon, and it gets very tiresome to hear your type of ignorant nonsense repeated over and over and over.  If you don’t have those resources, start with: (http://shields-research.org/Scriptures/BoM/BOMIssue.htm).
    3. “Say what you like about Joseph Smith Junior, the prophet of Mormonism, but his was a typical American story.”
    Response.  Josiah Quincy (ca. 1883) wrote: “It is by no means improbable that some future textbook, for the use of generations yet unborn,
    will contain a question something like this: What historical American of the nineteenth century
    has exerted the most powerful influence upon the destinies of his countrymen? And it is by no means
    impossible that the answer to that interrogatory may be thus written: Joseph Smith, the Mormon prophet.” (http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/JQuincy.html) Clearly you are doing nothing more than stating personal opinion, one based not on evidence, but on a predisposed attitude.
    4. “Mormonism is not a Christian religion.”
    Reponse:  Says who?  You?  Why do you feel that you get to define what a Christian religion is?  Mormons follow the Lord Jesus Christ of the New Testament and of the Book of Mormon and of the Doctrine and Covenants.  Mormonism is closer to New Testament theology than any other Church, including Catholicism.  Our beliefs are not based on a highly argumentative debated meeting at the Council of Nicea in order to hammer out a “Christian theology.”  Didn’t they already have the Bible?  And why did it take more councils after that?  Couldn’t these great learned men get it right the first time?
    5. “It is a religion that has no real connection with Jesus Christ, except at a semantic level.”
    Response:  A most offensive statement, if ever I have heard one (and I have heard many.  I am one of the founders of the http://www.shields-research.org website, so I can say with great authority that I have seen many an offensive statement.  I, and all Mormons that I personally know have a “real connection with Jesus Christ.”  You statement is nothing short of ludicrous.  Again your statement is one of nothing more than personal opinion.
    6. “denying as it does the foundational doctrines of the Christian faith – the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, and the exclusivity of revelation in Christ.”
    Response: Do you believe those “foundational doctrines” are found in the New Testament or do they come from the Nicene Council?  If you believe they are from the Nicene Council, then you are right, we reject those, with very good reason.  Many of them don’t square with the scriptures, for example, “The Trinity.”  Mormons do believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but not as a single unintelligible entity which cannot be understood in any sense other than semantics that man chooses to believe.  We MOST certainly do believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ!  We, like most of those professing to be Christians, accept the Bible to be the Word of God (let’s not play stupid games here about what Mormons accept and what they don’t.).  I have no idea what you mean by “the exclusivity of revelation in Christ.”  Are you suggesting that after Christ was crucified that the Apostles and followers of Jesus Christ didn’t receive personal revelation?  Again, read your scriptures.

    Ok, I tire of this.  No doubt you will attempt to wrestle with my comments, but I believe that fair minded people will be able to see through it.

    Stan Barker
    (www.shields-research.org)

  • J G

    The Holy See has declared that Mormon baptisms are invalid, that they deny essential doctrines such as the Trinity, and are not Christian. They are a separate religion loosely based on Christianity. We should remember that Mormons don’t accept our baptisms and their founder Smith declared that we are all apostates or “gentiles.” As soon as an article stating these facts is published the Mormon groups like FARMS go into action. We see that here with the Mormons posting on this article. I recognize the arguments.

    None of this means I won’t vote for Mitt. I will. He is far better then Obama whose religion is equally odd in my eyes, see Jeremiah Wright the millionaire preacher of his church. I am not keen on Mormonism, but I am not electing a theologian. I do not believe that Mitt’s Mormonism will be detrimental to the nation. That said, Mormonism is not Christianity. 

  • J G

     I know that you use terms like trinity, but don’t mean the Holy Trinity as Christians do. That is part of the problem.

  • Charles Martel

     profits? duh!

  • J G

      See the books Inside Mormonism and When Mormons Call by Isaiah Bennett.

  • J G

     Evidence? Written? How did they profit? Jesus was crucified.

  • J G

     The Bible mentions Jerusalem. You can go there. I have. No non-Mormon peer reviewed scholar has found the BOM to be verifiable in any way whatsoever.

  • J G

     Truth is not based on good feelings.

  • schmenz

     Suzielanders:

     Yawn.