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A new scandal is shaking the Aussie Church

Police are currently looking into alleged cover-ups involving three senior churchmen

By on Wednesday, 22 August 2012

Accusations of cover-ups and blame-shifting by the Catholic Church in its handling of allegations of child sexual abuse by priests have been front-page news in Australia. Newspaper headlines such as “Senior Catholic Priests in Child Sex Cover-Up Inquiry” point to claims that the Church has attempted to hide possible sex abuse within its walls rather than reporting it to the police.

Whether these cases will stand up is yet to be proved, but investigators in the states of New South Wales (NSW) and Victoria are currently searching for evidence that in many instances priests were merely moved on. This is not unique to Australia. There have been far-reaching repercussions from court cases involving cover-ups in Ireland, Germany and America.

Two dedicated investigations by the NSW police, Strike Force Lantle and Strike Force Glenroe, are currently looking into alleged cover-ups involving three senior churchmen, including a bishop and an archbishop.
An MP has renewed calls for a royal commission. Last April in Victoria, following revelations of 40 suicides of abuse victims by two priests, the state government initiated a parliamentary inquiry into the failure of the Catholic Church to protect children from sexual abuse.

All members of the hierarchy vehemently deny the allegations. But even if subsequent court hearings come to nothing, they are re-focusing attention on the many priests already jailed for paedophilia.

There are no official figures, but since 1993 the charity Broken Rites alone has supported 150 cases which ended in prosecutions and are currently aiding another eight court cases. They have also handled 15 cases that ended without convictions and 128 out-of-court settlements. The abuse was so extensive that Pope Benedict, when visiting Sydney in 2008 on World Youth Day, made a public apology to victims in Australia.

Whether mandatory celibacy has contributed to abuse is now much debated. One lawyer remarked: “Total denial of sexuality can have terrible repercussions. Pent-up sexual tensions sometimes find an outlet with the easiest available target – sadly this is often children.”

The fact that celibacy is a matter of Church discipline, not part of Church doctrine, has been emphasised in the recent revelations of 49-year-old Fr Kevin Lee of Sydney, who has been married to a woman in the Philippines for a year.

While in Australia I made inquiries into how all this will adversely affect congregations. The answer is that Mass attendance is now similar to that in Dublin, with less than one in five Catholics kneeling in pews each Sunday. But with 5.5 million Catholics – that is, 25.3 per cent of the population – the Catholic Church, despite the growth of Pentecostal churches, is Australia’s largest religion.

Along with diminishing churchgoers, the drop in the number of Australian-born priests continues. In the 2012 directory of Catholic priests in Australia once again the most common name is Vietnamese. There are 40 priests called Nguyen.

But one positive trend is the vibrancy of Australia’s Catholic schools – mostly run by lay teachers. With 650,000 students and around 21 per cent of all secondary school enrolments, they rank second after government schools. As non-Catholic admissions are kept at around seven per cent, parish priests are sometimes asked by Catholic parents who never got around to having their babies baptised to perform late baptisms on children aged between four and 11. These christenings are, alas, for expediency, not for faith.

  • buckingham88

    One could be forgiven, after reading this oped, that things in OZ are really bad and the worst is yet to come. A bit like going to Hawii but the volcano blows up.
     Yes, in the praxis of faith , some ask for late baptism.But then the faithful are in a process, only the perfect are seen on blog pages and commentators who know the real mind of parents.
     There is no doubt that parts of the Australian CC, if you could call its universality such a thing,are in crisis, but it is not true that those bishops most involved have not rolled up their sleeves and called the flock together.This is something that is ‘all unlooked for ‘in many comments on the UK situation.
     Despite calls for a royal commission and the revelations of the priest that married a bar girl in the Phillipines, who now does not want to leave her home, the response by the faithful in my parish was electrifying and positive to the Bishop of Parramatta’s statement.
     It is not appropriate to comment on police enquiry, the fact that this is the outcome of the calls by victims advocates for a Royal Commission is comment enough.
     It would seem that the good Dutchess came to OZ just as the media attack on the bishops and senior clergy was sharpest.
     If a casual observer had come the next week they would have been convinced that the Royal Australian Navy was a hotbed of men pent on sexual crimes. or was it Duntroon, I forget, and last week the Australian Prime minister was really a person with a series of questions which she was to answer or she may have been involved with criminality.
     This could all have been gleaned by watching TV and reading a few papers but has no bearing on what is really going on in the lives of the faithful or of the population, except that it helps ratings.
    One of the attractive things about the Church in Australia, as pointed out in the oped, is the openness to new people whom we laughingly call ethnic, yet in their old country, we are the ethnics.One of the mechanisms for nation building is through the schools.
     Our local parish has been run by some excellent men, one who was elevated to Bishop.He was, and is, a person with the desire to not only help the mentally ill and sick in our area, but to invite them into his home.He was an ‘irregular’ arrival to OZ and is now a hardworking friend of the flock.BTW, he’s ‘Vietnamese’, but here, we call him Australian.
     There has been an effort to rebuild the church here, and vocations are at least rising from a low point.
     The comprehensive attack on the priesthood keeps rolling. It is helped by the sense of alienation and loneliness that speaks to us from those priests who have left the priesthood, in their anger and pain shared in magazine interviews and TV grabs.
     Despite all this we have good priests and bishops.But then, that’s the balance we seem not to get from the secular press.

  • JabbaPapa

    Then why is one line of defence this, that the Vatican & the bishops
    did not understand paedophilia was a sin, or did not know it was
    incurable ?

    ?????

    I’ve only EVER seen some ill-advised lay Catholics saying any such thing.

    I’ve seen some Bishops sometimes being *blamed* by the media or by atheist internet trolls for thinking that paedophilia could be cured, but frankly that was the prevailing medical opinion right up to the 1980s when the paedophile scandals first started emerging from the woodwork after the Dutroux scandal and etc, and the sheer scale of the whole thing became suddenly and horrifyingly obvious to everybody.

    And IIRC, paedophilia only started to be viewed as generally speaking incurable (though not necessarily always untreatable) from the 90s onwards, at which point the numbers of abuses by clergy had already declined very sharply (the greater amount of cases of abuse took place between 1950s and early 1980s).

    What far distant planet were they living on, to miss what the laity could see ?

    Don’t be ridiculous, NOBODY prior to the 1980s had the foggiest clue about the actual prevalence of child abuse, sexual or otherwise, in Western society. Not even the so-called child care “experts” and professionals, and certainly none of the policy makers.

    Only AFTER the Dutroux scandal in particular had happened, and society became more clearly conscious that these paedophiles exist and that there was a will that they should be apprehended and punished, were the countless of victims of paedophiles able to shake off their fears and apprehensions and make their stories known to society at large and to the Police.

    Your analysis is another nail in the coffin of the zombie called Catholic Bishops’ Credibility.

    Oh give up the posturing !!

    Bishops are just men, not superhuman omniscient angels.

    Expecting perfection of them is to expect the impossible.

    STM the Church has endured 60 “years of failure to adapt” not 10

    More ridiculous nonsense.

    The real nature of the prevalence of paedophilia only emerged in the 1980s and onwards, and the Church itself only started to be shaken by revelations of it in the clergy in the 1990s.

    Neither the 1980s nor the 1990s are “60 years ago” — furthermore, the Church reacted in fact rather swiftly once the scandals of clerical paedophilia and the occasional cover-ups in some places became known.

    Also — some people seem to imagine that information flowed freely and unhindered in times prior to the 1990s IT Revolution. As if there had been an internet in the 1950s to 1980s, as if it were even remotely possible that people could genuinely be aware of all these things with no means at their disposal to gain access to that information. Wrong. Information circulated in the form of newspapers, telephone calls, and private letters.

    Do I see anyone ever pointing the finger at newspaper editors and journalists prior to 1980s, and trying to cover them with public shame and guilt for not doing what they could to expose the realities of paedophilia in society ???? Are *they* at all guilty of cover up ????

    Or weren’t they in fact just as ignorant as everybody else was as to the true extent of these crimes in our society ?

    what were the bishops – those who didn’t frequent rent-boys,like at
    least one Cardinal, or knock up married women – doing all that time
    ? That’s right: exposing minors to molestation AKA acting as pimps (fair
    enough: they prostitute everything else in the Church, so why stop at
    minors ?); and re-cycling Father Ped O’Phile from parish to parish
    and diocese to diocese, with no rubbish about giving his new consignment
    of “meat” any warning about his previous behaviour. And Catholics are
    expected to respect such people !

    These are utterly horrendous slanders, and you are violently and sinfully accusing the VAST majority of the completely innocent of the crimes and failures of a small minority.

    You should be deeply ashamed of yourself for spreading these calumnies !!!

    There is no cover-up scandal at all in the great majority of Catholic dioceses, as well as in a great many entire countries.

    Some countries already had robust and effective child protection laws even *before* the paedophile scandal came to light in the 1980s, so that the Bishops, obeying the Law of the land, were not abandoned to their own devices, and the victims of child abuse were therefore referred to the competent civil authorities.

    The scandal at its worst has systematically occurred in those countries where the child protection laws were either totally inadequate, or even entirely non-existent in some cases.

    This is a problem of society as a whole that society as a whole has somehow irrationally decided should be dumped onto the Catholic Church *only* as its ritual scapegoat.

    Your comments are despicable.

  • JabbaPapa

    The “analysis” provided in this ludicrous article is grotesquely flawed, and seems to be based on a desire for hatred and revenge rather than a desire for truth and facts.

  • JabbaPapa

    1) In fact the VAST majority of cases involve the statutory rape or forcible sex abuse of adolescent boys by homosexual clergy. I mean, around 90%.

    Also NO you’re completely wrong, and so is that Stephen Fry person for having suggested it in the first place — apart from the homosexuality just mentioned, it’s child *abuse*, because there are many forms of child abuse that are entirely non-sexual in nature, so that by focusing on sex abuses only, one would do a massive disservice to the victims of those other forms of abuse, and to those trying to help protect children from those non-sexual abuses

    2) This is a straightforward LIE

    3) Irrelevant and meaningless personal opinions of the slanderous type

  • JabbaPapa

    In fact, the perpetrators of either the abuses or the cover-ups belonged to all of the various different political factions involved in arguing about Vatican II.

    The perpetrators themselves are mainly homosexual clergy seeking gratification with adolescent boys ; or paedophiles having joined the priesthood for the main purpose of gaining easy access to small children — because that’s what paedophiles do, they deliberately seek out to belong to those professions where such access is a part of the job.

  • JabbaPapa

    As for boys being predominantly victims, I suspect you are making the
    figures up to suit your agenda. There is a predominance of male victims
    over female but it is not 90%, it is more like 60% (the figures vary
    somewhat between different studies). A 60-70% predominance is
    explainable simply by the fact that girls tend not to be under the
    supervision of priests, and so there are more boys available to molest.

    The data that is generally presented to the public is not the raw data, but it is very frequently skewed for various different purposes, including some *very good* purposes BTW, but also including the politically correct purpose of excluding homosexuality itself from the studies of paedophilia and paedophiles specifically.

    The statistics that you mention concern victims under 13 IIRC, that is to say those victims that are undeniably those of paedophiles, not of gay statutory rape or other abuses.

    Considered separately, the behaviour of the *paedophiles* in the clergy is exactly equivalent to that of paedophiles throughout the whole of society.

    The actual reasons why boys are targetted more frequently than girls by paedophiles is that whist they are actually indifferent to the sex of the victim, they tend to prefer making boys suffer than girls, and because girls are also generally better supervised than boys, hence more difficult to target.

    But these statistics still only concern about 10% of the cases, because the vast majority of sex crimes committed upon minors involve homosexual priests and adolescent boys.

    And as for myself, NO I’m not making these numbers up, I have read more extensively on the subject than I’m comfortable with — and Charlemagne’s presentation of the facts is a generally accurate one.

    As for homosexuality and paedophilia going hand in hand

    90% of the *sex crimes* involving clergy and minors concern homosexuals and adolescent boys.

    Abuses of pubescent boys by homosexual men do NOT constitute “paedophilia”, at least as it is clinically defined ; they constitute illegal gay sex between an adult and someone not having reached the age of consent — they DO however constitute “child abuse”.

    As regards your second numbered paragraph, I would welcome you explaining where you get your evidence for this.

    As regards his second numbered paragraph, I have seen the same data, and he is accurately representing it.

    As a result of this naivete and bad management, the Catholic Church’s
    policies and procedures for child protection for many years could hardly
    have been better at inflicting the greatest amount of harm on the
    largest possible number of victims had they been designed with that
    specific end in mind. This is the true scandal of the Catholic Church.

    This is in fact a grossly forcible one-sided exaggeration.

    There is no cover-up scandal at all in the VAST majority of Catholic dioceses.

    Scandals have occurred in a dismayingly large number of them, but it is nevertheless a false representation to claim this as a failure of the Church in general, whereas it is in fact a failure of society as a whole.

    Most of the cover-up scandals have occurred in countries where the civil and legal authorities had some totally inadequate, even counterproductive, measures in place for the protection of children.

    The Republic of Ireland STILL has no adequate child protection laws !!!

    First, Second, Third, Fourth

    You are simply advocating what the Church has already implemented from 1990s onwards. Do keep up !!!

  • JabbaPapa

    I ask “Parasum” a question and “JabbaPapa” answers. Is this an instance
    of one person with several profiles (so that he can vote for and back up
    himself) ?

    No — we are different people, and we frequently disagree with each other BTW.

  • JabbaPapa

    Wrong

  • JabbaPapa

    hmmmm, my source is a French language printed article I read some years ago, so I can’t exactly link you to it …

    Briefly, the Cardinal was quite desperate to change what he saw as a quite dismal state of affairs, likely from reports that he was receiving from the US and elsewhere, but he was particularly concerned at the start of his efforts by the fact that it was actually extremely difficult to defrock a priest discovered to be guilty of child abuse if that priest decided to put up a fight against being defrocked.

    The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith had NO AUTHORITY in the rules of the time to force the expulsion of such priests, the individual Bishops had no authority to do so without a specific authorisation from the Holy See, and the Bishops were also legally *required* to keep their reasons for requesting such excommunications in confidence of all but a few designated Offices.

    So the CDF was aware of the reasons why father such-and-such was being suggested as unworthy for the priesthood, but the administrative Office actually having the Authority to accept the defrocking could not be provided with those reasons.

    So that if the paedophile priest put up a resistance, that Vatican Office would then suggest to the Bishop that as a conciliatory measure, that priest should be granted a move to a different diocese.

    Which is BTW a perfectly *normal* procedure in most cases where there is a personality or other conflict between a priest and his Ordinary ; but quite blatantly a totally inappropriate procedure for the handling of sexual criminals.

    So, there were a great many Bishops finding themselves in a Catch-22 situation, prior to 1980s especially.

    1) They were faced with Police officers who very frequently simply did NOT want to get involved with investigating allegations of kiddy fiddling, but devoting their resources to the investigation of murder and armed robbery etc instead.

    2) They concurrently faced a situation where it was nearly impossible to defrock these priests, in the absence of any criminal investigation, therefore no conviction possible of their crimes.

    3) They were on the receiving end of a bureaucratic disarray whereby they were instructed to allow that priest to move to a different diocese, on the basis of a catastrophic lack of transparency and proper information at the disposal of the decision makers

    4) Another huge problem was that the Congregation for the Clergy was greatly understaffed at the Vatican, so that the secretarial personnel quite simply did not have enough hours in their working day to deal with every single case involving every single priest with anything even close to the proper degree of thoroughness and care

    This is the real cause why some known paedophile priests were shifted around instead of being kicked out.

    And the Cardinal was understandably incensed at this state of affairs, and he very quickly started to be active, both politically and philosophically, to try and get things changed into a better system, whereby known paedophiles would be systematically defrocked — but in the face of the natural conservative opposition of those other Prefects in the other Offices who did not wish to relinquish their own political authority in these matters, and who saw Ratzinger as trying to overstep his limits.

    And whilst the Pope was personally supportive of the Cardinal, it wasn’t until the Dutroux scandal, and after the victims of paedophiles generally started gathering their courage to denounce their abusers, that the Cardinal finally gained enough internal political support for his proposals that he was able to start actively implementing them — though it was only AFTER he became Pope that he was able to establish that it is the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, not the Congregation for the Clergy, and certainly NOT each individual Bishop, that was to handle accusations of child abuse made against clergy and religious.

    The root cause of the mess was NOT a desire to protect clergy and actively engage in cover-ups (although some individual Bishops are certainly guilty of both) ; the root cause was some woefully inadequate canon laws, as well as some totally inadequate bureaucratic procedures, as well as some totally inadequate child protection laws and incompetent civil authorities in those places where these scandals have occurred.

  • Jonathan West

    If you believe that the church is already implementing what I have suggested, then you will believe anything. The church in England and Wales claims to have the best procedures in the Cathoilic Church anywhere in the world, to be used as a model for elsewhere, and yet the church here is a long way from actually implementing what I have described. 

    They pay lipservice to it, and the bishops occasionally meet together to say how important it is, but they are very slow actually to do anything about it. They seem to think that my merely saying they are doing it, they will make it so.

  • AJ

    I am afraid your correspondent’s view of Australian Catholic schools is over-optimistic.

    As a teacher and lay chaplain here I have to say that religious education is scandalously heterodox.  One high school that I have worked at had a real figure of 45% baptised with a ‘churched’ rate of 5%.  The principal once told me that youth evangelisation was in his view a form of child abuse.

    There is some evidence of leakage of committed Catholic children out of Catholic hostile “small ‘c’ Catholic schools” into the burgeoning independent Christian school system – at least they will get the kerygma and Christiaan sexual ethics.

    AJ

  • JabbaPapa

    I was talking about the Church in general, not the Church in this or that country, when I said “the Church is implementing” these measures.

    And I certainly would not expect full implementation to have been achieved everywhere, in fact I know for a certainty that this is not the case.

    The church in England and Wales claims to have the best procedures in the Cathoilic Church anywhere in the world, to be used as a model for elsewhere

    I’ve never heard any such claim, not living in the UK — but it is a non-truthful claim.

    If there is any national Church with “the best procedures in
    the Catholic Church anywhere in the world”, then it will be that country where there is a clear and completely transparent process at the ecclesial level, the judiciary, the Police, taking into account both the needs of the alleged victims and those of alleged perpetrators ; including the requirements of presumption of innocence, and confidentiality for all involved parties, etc etc

    The Church in France is *miles* closer to this ideal than the Church in England & Wales at the present time !!!

  • Jonathan West

    I haven’t studied what is going on in France, so I’m not in  a position to know whether your description of procedures there is accurate, but I do note that we have found one point of agreement!

    We are both of the opinion that the church in England and Wales should not be used as a model for churches elsewhere.

  • Rayosun

    How did you determine that “The perpetrators themselves are mainly homosexual clergy seeking gratification with adolescent boys ; or paedophiles having joined the priesthood for the main purpose of gaining easy access to small children — because that’s what paedophiles do, they deliberately seek out to belong to those professions where such access is a part of the job.”? 
    My guess is that you used the typical Catholic methodology, you pulled it out of your hat! 
    Having spent 13 years trying to become a priest MYSELF, I can’t imagine pedophiles trying that route to get to victims.  
    And as for homosexuals, whenever any were discovered, they were gone before the sun set.  I was one of only 9 who were ordained from a class that had started with 60 members.   

    When I discovered that the higher up I went in the R.C. hierarchy, the more dishonest and corrupt I had to become, I got out before they corrupted ME.  See my web site about the largely unknown evils of this chruch  at my http://JesusWouldBeFurious.Org site.

  • Rayosun

    I know of no scientific study that supports the claim that “The perpetrators themselves are mainly homosexual clergy seeking gratification with adolescent boys.”Judging from my own personal experience of decades of asociation with seminaries and priests, my guess is that R.C. pedophile priests abuse with MALES for the same reason that males in prison do.  They don’t have access to FEMALES.  It’s been known for centuries that girls needed to be protect from priests.  It was assumed – on the other hand – that it was an HONOR for boys to have the attention of “men of God”!!!!

  • Fr Thomas Poovathinkal

    FOR THE OFFICIAL CHURCH IT IS THE BEST GOD-GIVEN OPPORTUNITY  TO REPENT AND BELIEVE IN WORD OF THE SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST AND THUS MAKE ITSELF FIT FOR THE KINGDOM  OF GOD THE LORD BROUGHT TO US.

    AS FOR THOSE – PRIESTS OR RELIGIOUS -  WHO COMMIT CRIMES  OF THE SORT THAT IS WIDELY DISCUSSED IN SOME OBSESSED AND ENEMICAL CIRCLES  WITH EXAGGERATION BEYOND WORDS AND WITH DIABOLIC MALICE WHETHER IT IS  ABOUT SEXING WITH  CHILDREN OR WOMEN OR ANYTHING  SIMILAR, IT IS THE PERSONAL PROBLEM OF  THOSE WHO DO SUCH THINGS. AS THEY SAY THE ONE WHO IS BENT UPON  EATING SALT WILL HAVE TO END UP DRINKING A LOT OF WATER,  WHAT WE SEE HERE IS  SOME SORT OF CAUSE AND EFFECT RELATIONSHIP.

    ALL THE SAME ALL US BELIEVERS IN JESUS THE LORD, KNOWING THAT WE ARE ALL SINNERS (FOR HE IT IS  JESUS HIMSELF WHO SAID, “ONLY GOD IS GOOD”), MAY PRAY FOR PEOPLE WHO DO SUCH THINGS.

  • Fr Thomas Poovathinkal

     
    “Much better that the law of the country prevails……”

    NOT EXACTLY SO. 

    WHEN THE CHURCH DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM, IT GOES OUT TO THE WORLD AND THE COUNTRY.

    IN ANY CASE VICTIMS ARE NOT THE BEST PEOPLE TO DELIVER THE RIGHT JUDGEMENT  IN SUCH MATTERS.

    LIKE RAGGERS BEGETTING RAGGERS IN TURN, VICTIMS BECOME AGGRESSORS IN TURN. IT IS THE LAW OF THE WORLD AND  NOT OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST THE LORD.

    FIRST AND FOREMOST  WHAT I PRESENTED IS A FAMILY MATTER. THE FAMILY CONCERNED IS THAT OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD IN JESUS THE LORD.

    MY APPEAL IS TO  SUCH A FAMILY. THESE MAKE THE PEOPLE OF GOD, THAT TOO IN JESUS THE LORD.

  • JabbaPapa

    I know of no scientific study that supports the claim that “The
    perpetrators themselves are mainly homosexual clergy seeking
    gratification with adolescent boys.”Judging from my own personal
    experience of decades of asociation with seminaries and priests

    Sorry — the scientific studies that I have seen most definitely DO support this claim, even though they try to hide this inconvenient non-politically correct fact by only discussing in their conclusions the cases of clinical paedophilia with victims aged under 13 ONLY — where there is actually no homosexual bias whatsoever, because these are (usually) not acts motivated by either heterosexuality or homosexuality as such.

    The statistics for the abuse by clergy of adolescents *specifically* are massively weighted towards being motivated by homosexuality, it’s just a fact.

    And please don’t try and pretend that the whole older man/adolescent boy gay fantasy doesn’t exist nor that gays don’t seek to make that fantasy into reality, given that it is a stable characteristic of the gay sexual experience, as has been well-documented for over 2500 years…

  • JabbaPapa

    I haven’t studied what is going on in France

    Basically, accusations of child abuse have been forwarded directly to the Police for several decades, since well before any scandals erupted, and there is simply no great big cover-up scandal.

    This is because it is a legal obligation to report crimes (certain cases of professional confidentiality excepted, including the Confessional), a crime if you fail to do so, and also because the measures for the protection of both victims and of any falsely accused are very robust.

  • Hanora Brennan

    I beg to differ radically with you on B16′s dealing with this matter. The fact of the matter is he covered up abuse and refused to act when he was in charge of the CDF in the Vatican. With the exposure of child abuse here in Ireland, files were unearthed to show that the Vatican knew of the abuses here in this country as far back as 1930. I have managed to get those files so if veracity is needed let me know.

  • Hanora Brennan

    Everything that is happening in Australia regarding Child Sexual Abuse has been copied from the Redress Board model here in Ireland. In my dealings with the RCC in any country, I find priests and bishops quite defensive in their attitudes regarding this sordid saga. I even went to some great lengths to see an Archbishop regarding a ‘possibilty’ of sexual abuse of a minor by a priest in Ireland and all I got for my troubles was two solicitors letters. The local bishop chose the cover of darkness to apparoach the priest in question. When the door was answered and the bishop was called Father in error he was rather arrogant in his rejoinder ‘Bishop to you!’! No, things have not improved an iota since this scandal erupted. All we hear is Roman Rhetoric from the Catholic Church. The will is not there to clean up th mess.

  • Charles

     If its not politically incorrect to say that 99% of rape is committed by men, why is it politically incorrect to say that most sexual abuse of boys is committed by gay men? Its true and everyone knows it! This shows how utterly irrational and obscurantist political correctness is and all thinking people should work towards PC becoming socially unacceptable.

  • JabbaPapa

    I beg to differ radically with you on B16′s dealing with this matter. The fact of the matter is he covered up abuse and refused to act when he was in charge of the CDF in the Vatican

    In fact, that is a lie.

    Otherwise, you are confusng civil law with canon law.

    Priests are not the Police.

  • srdc

    It’s the baby-boomers that are falling away. The church is alive with young blood. There were a million youth at WYD in Spain last time.

  • Jonathan West

    Your first response to me was that immediate reporting was beeing implemented everywhere. Now you are suggesting that it is being implemented in France (in part at least because it is a legal obligation to do so), and that the church in England and Wales is miles away from doing the same thing.

    So why the complaint in your first response when I described what isn’t happening in the church in England and Wales at present but should be?

  • John Wilson

    Why do you have to tell us you are a duchess? Do we care? We don’t want to hear of your sort. The French solution is in order here. Let the tumbrils take you to your deserved fate.

    As for the widespread rape of children – it has been going on for centuries, and anyone who claims he/she is Catholic deserves a bloody good hiding.

  • John Wilson

    Your defence of mass child rape is despicable, you defender of hideous Catholic crime. You apologist for evil, to claim it is society’s fault for not protecting children from bestial Catholic priests, corrupt bishops and Popes. Shame on you.

    Better that a millstone be tied round your criminal neck and you be cast into the sea.

  • John Wilson

     Ah Kerela! Nice part of the world.

    But it is NOT a personal problem of the rapist priest. His problem should be how to cope with life imprisonment, which he should get. The personal problem is with the thousands of victims, buggered and abused by Catholic priests.

  • JabbaPapa

    These comments of yours are quite violently hateful, in a despicable sort of manner.

    Obviously, I have never and never will “defend” any form of evil child abuse.

  • JabbaPapa

    Well, more conservatively, my opinion is that some internet trolls deserve a bloody good banning.

  • JabbaPapa

    Not my intention — I said that “the Church” (by which I mean the central Church at the Holy See etc) is implementing (not “has implemnted”) the measures that you suggested — this does not mean that there will be 100% perfect implmentation of them everywhere and in every imaginable scenario, it just means, more simply, that the Church is already acting in such a manner.

    Furthermore, the mesures in Freance particularly actually go *beyond* the minimum expectations of the Holy See, simply because of the overall technocratic diligence of the French legal and social system as regards minors and educational matters specifically.

    I’m not saying the French system is “better”, I’m just saying that because of the peculiarities of France’s attitudes towards children and youth, the child protection measures put in place by both the Authorities and the Church are extemely well focused and clear in comparison to those typically found elsewhere.

  • Jonathan West

    I think that you are getting mixed up between the idea that it has been promised that child protection will be implemented everywhere, and it actually getting done.

    I accept that it has been promised. The evidence is that there is a long way to go in many countries before the promise can be said to have been kept.

  • Truth

    Catholic priesthood is an international paedophile ring supported by bishops, cardinals, and popes