Thu 18th Sep 2014 | Last updated: Thu 18th Sep 2014 at 17:03pm

Facebook Logo Twitter Logo RSS Logo
Hot Topics

Latest News

Medjugorje seers to speak at Vienna cathedral

By on Wednesday, 22 September 2010

Pilgrims at the shrine of Medjugorje in Bosnia-Herzegovina

Pilgrims at the shrine of Medjugorje in Bosnia-Herzegovina

Two of the alleged Marian seers from the Bosnian town of Medjugorje have been invited to speak at Vienna’s Catholic cathedral.

Marija Pavlovic-Lunetti and Ivan Dragicevic will speak tomorrow at the Stephansdom in Vienna as part of a peace initiative organised by the Community “Oasis of Peace”. They are two of the six seers who have reportedly had Marian apparitions since 1981. Miss Pavlovic-Lunetti allegedly receives messages from the Virgin Mary every month. Since the first sighting, she has reportedly appeared to the seers over 40,000 times, imparting hundreds of messages.

The authenticity of the Marian apparitions in Bosnia-Herzogovina is currently under review by the Vatican. A report in July from the Italian news agency ANSA said that the commission, established in March this year and run by Cardinal Camillo Ruini, was considering interviewing the alleged seers.

Annually about one million pilgrims travel to Medjugorje even though the place has not been declared a shrine and “official” pilgrimages are forbidden by the Vatican. The 1991 Zadar declaration, made by the bishops of former Yugoslavia, ruled that the apparitions were “not established as supernatural” and could therefore not be authenticated.

Earlier this year, the Archbishop of Vienna, Cardinal Christoph Schönborn, caused some controversy after travelling to Medjugorje and celebrating Mass there. He said his visit was in part to “de-dramatise” the “Medjugorje phenomenon”. He said the alleged Marian apparitions were secondary to the “school of normal Christian life”.

He said he had gone to Medjugorje to see the tree which bore fruits such as Cenacolo, a community which helps rehabilitate drug users.

Cardinal Schönborn, who leads the Austrian bishops’ conference and is a member of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), said he did not want to pre-empt the Vatican’s ruling by visiting.

Bishop Ratko Peric of Mostar-Duvno is strongly opposed to the phenomenon and expressed his dismay at the cardinal’s visit in January.

The event at St Stephen’s Cathedral also includes Sister Elvira Petrozzi, the founder of the Cenacolo community, and will be followed by Mass and Eucharistic Adoration. Organisers expect hundreds of young people to attend.

Cardinal Schönborn took part in the event last year and told the press he was moved by the number of people who had come to the cathedral, to rediscover the sacraments.

The Medjugorje Commission, appointed by the CDF, includes the Slovakian Cardinal Jozef Tomko, retired prefect of the Congregation for the Evangelisation of Peoples, Cardinal Vinko Puljic of Sarajevo, Cardinal Julian Herranz, and Archbishop Angelo Amato, prefect for the Congregation for Saints’ Causes and former secretary of the CDF.

  • 1molly

    You surely can't really believe that celibacy is “not even difficult” as that comment is surely “off the wall ridiculous”! For a start, if it were that easy what would be the point in a priest living such a life in service to God. It's obviously a sacrafice and penance because it IS difficult

    And if it were so easy, we could just tell people in third world countries not to worry about AIDS, just stop having sex, it's easy to be celibate. If only!

    Vocations that require men to be celibate will obviously attract some weird and wonderful individuals – whether that means child sex abuse offenders is of course another thing, as like you, I do believe that can be much more prevalent in people who lead married lives and are leading a double life etc However it's the cover up jobs within the Church that gets people down. That is what is unforgiveable.

    As for married priests, going back in history the first ever priests were ALL married. Celibacy within the Catholic church as a requirement for a priest is actually a new way of thinking (relatively speaking)

    I can already hear Editor CT hot on my heels!!

  • Edward B

    Clearly I was discussing the celibacy as easy in terms of the avoidance of sex, not the loss of a normal yearning for a family. It is off the wall to refuse to see this distinction. Celibacy is a sacrifice; it is not a penance. It is a sacrifice for the surrender of the joys of parenthood, not because living without sex is overwhelmingly difficult. Celibacy is also a part of the lives of unmarried Catholics. Those who make chastity overwhelmingly difficult do so because of sinful decisions made in life and the decision to make them habitual. Sin is not compulsory. Sin would not be sin if were impossible to avoid. It is off the wall to avoid understanding something so obvious.

    Obviously covering for degenerates is an intrinsic evil. But so is declaring anything unforgivable an intrinsic evil. Insisting that celibacy causes one to become a child molester is also an intrinsic evil because it represents foolishness on such a monumental scale it contributes to and supports a social ethos that discourages an honest approach to the problem. As such, it supports the problem. Believing that celibacy causes child abuse supports child abuse. So does perpetuating the ridiculous fiction that condoms fight AIDS. Such a lie contributes to the spread of AIDS.

    Intrinsic evils are not intrinsically sinful until embraced by moral intention. The morally depraved airhead Gospa refuses to understand this. It is sad that its idolaters are increasingly swayed to do likewise. Gospa is also an airhead on Church history. You may not want to emulate such an airhead by your claim that celibacy is “relatively new thinking.” And by the way, I never said Gospa was the devil. Its fantasy existence is merely manufactured from the combined sins of pride from cynical manipulators and those who would want something so evil as a rosary to turn to gold.

  • 1molly

    Do you ever take the time to really understand what someone is trying to say! I obviously was NOT insisting celibacy causes child abuse! I even said I agreed with you that it is not the most prevalent within the Church and is full reign outside and beyond.

    To tell me that it is an intrinsic evil to call cover up jobs “unforgiveable” is just as much an evil from you to say so. “unforgiveable” is simply a human response or turn of phrase, obviously as Catholics we DO forgive. That is one of the most important parts of our faith!

    Yet again you bring Gospa into it… GROAN! Can you not fail to move on and discuss something quite seperate. As I have already said, my love is for Our Lady and Gospa is something quite seperate, which I do NOT idolise.

    And by the way, to set the record straight, I was not WANTING my rosary to turn gold. It just did! Got it!

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    1molly,

    I can truthfully say that you are the very first Medjugorje supporter I have ever communicated with, who is open to the facts of the matter. I should add that I know of one other who completely changed his mind after some years. Apart fom him (and your good self) I have never met any Medjugorje adherents who would even entertain the possibility that this could be a false apparition. So, I'm impressed.

    I take your point about going to Medjugorje and, believe it or not, I have mentioned to a couple of people that I was considering doing just that, if I can ascertain that I would, indeed, be able to speak with the alleged seers, I'd go there. I'm not sure that they would answer my questions – or even hear them. In a recent BBC Newsnight piece, the point was made that this was the first television interview given by Ivan – I can't help wondering if they give any kind of interviews, even to humble amateurs like me.

    Anyway, the one point I would comment on from your excellent post, is that it has, of course, been known for the priest/bishop to be proved wrong in such cases in the past, but that is not the issue. In none of the approved apparitions, even where the bishop or priest expressed disbelief, did the visionaries disobey. That's the issue: the seers' spirit of disobedience, not the bishop's opinions or statements.

    It's a bit like if your boss suspends you from your job for something he suspects you of doing, even if you are innocent. He is entitled to suspend, you pending investigation. If you fight against him at that stage, you would be in the wrong. And it would muddy the waters for those invesigating. It's not a perfect analogy but I hope it illustrates the issue which is NOT what the bishop thinks about these alleged apparitions but the alleged seers' reaction to his legitimate authority. I've little doubt that the Bishop of that diocese is as modernist as all the rest of the world's bishops (generally speaking) but in this matter he is exercising his legitimate authority and we are all obliged to obey.

    Anyway, I'm sorry you didn't like my fancy footwork! What's a gal gotta do to make friends and influence people around here???

  • 1molly

    Thanks Editor CT,

    I for my part am only too aware that I am not above God and so am humble as an individual before him. If this whole thing does prove to be a hoax I would wish to be the first person to discover so as I wish for nothing to get in the way of what I believe the message of my faith to truly be. As it is the Truth too for which I am looking.

    Also, as a journalist myself, am I only too aware that one can't always, even with faith accept everything at face value. If wrong doing is being done, then of course it should be undone! I am not opposed to that at all. Blind faith is dangerous.

    At this point – I shall instead cling to what is proven to be definite fact – Lourdes and Fatima and just every day teaching. I neither attack nor condone Medjugorje, as one of our “colleagues” wrote, the truth will out! Let's hope soon, especially if something really sinister.

    As for your fancy footwork, just joking. Already consider you a friend!

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    That's extremely wise, 1molly, to stick with what is proven/accepted in the Church. I always wonder why people are so ardent in following unapproved cults when there are important and beautiful approved shrines to visit and promote. Fatima is just SO important, the key to understanding the crisis in the Church today for starters, so we need to be on our guard against diabolical attempts to divert us from that.

    And how lovely of you to consider me a friend. Likewise! Especially since you are a real live journalist and not a counterfeit like moi – I'm honoured!

    God bless.

  • Edward B

    I did not say YOU wanted your rosary to turn to gold. Got it? But yours didn’t anyway. What was it before? Was it one of the common chrome filled brass types in which the chrome tarnishes and dissipates revealing the shiny brass underneath? You are quite delusional about that, as you are about the sun spinning. Check with your eye doctor. Others who go to Medjugorje specifically wanting rosaries to turn to gold are obviously pursuing evil in the first place. Got it?

    You say you are a journalist, so I suppose a short attention span is an occupational hazard. Discussing a concrete example in the course of discussing a moral or theological principle is not “bringing in Gospa.” It is a rational necessity.

    Also, I did not say YOU said celibacy causes child abuse specifically. Got it? Your response to my response to the ridiculous remarks of a prior poster attacked the idea of celibacy and implicitly defended his ridiculous theory.

    Words and ideas have consequences. Your retroactive qualification of your rhetorical omission and qualification of “unforgivable” is not my fault and is not an evil act on my part to note your transgression of fundamental Catholic principle. But it is evil for you to falsely fault me for your sloppiness of rhetorical discipline. Got it?

  • Lnewington

    I wish you could locate a copy of All I Need Is A Miracle, a documentary made several years ago by Journalist Terry Willesse. You would see firsthand how vulnerable faithful were being exploited spiritually world wide with their cancers and children with obvious medical conditions with the blessing of the Minister General of local religious order, it's criminal really.

  • PaulaC

    So why go 24 times to a place you are certain does not bear fruit.

  • Bobbyfranky

    “The hallmark of every genuine visionary in the Church to date, has been their unfailing obedience to the local Bishop.”

    Not true. Sr. Lucia of Fatima, although ordered by her bishop to write down the third part of the secret, did not do so for many many weeks, not sure Blessed Mary wanted her to do it. So she did not obey the bishop. FInally after many weeks, Blessed Mary appeared to her and told her it was ok to write it down, and then she did. (From the memoirs of Sr. Lucia.)

  • Bobbyfranky

    It makes no sense to go there 24 times if you do not believe. To say this as charitably as I can, I do not find your claim of visiting 24 times credible. If you could explain why you went there even more than once, perhaps??

  • Bobbyfranky

    In this case, the local bishop IS NOT THE AUTHORITY on Medjugorje. So many against Medjugorje keep saying this, even though the CDF has taken charge of the Medjugorje investigation. The Vaticna has said anybody is free to go there, just not as an official Church sponsored pilgrimage since it has not yet been approved by the Church or declared a shrine etc.

    To keep saying those who go there are in disobedience to the local bishop, or to say the local bishop is THE authority on the matter, is itself disobedience! The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is in charge of investigating the matter, not the local bishop. The CDF has the authority on the matter.

  • Bobbyfranky

    Why did you serve as a translator for all the seers, if you do not believe them? Why help translate, why help spread, false messages that might lead people away from God, if you believe it is false? Why be an accomplice to this falsehood? I find your statements inconsistent and therefore not very credible.

  • Bobbyfranky

    The local bishop is NOT the authority, the CDF is the authority on the matter. Please get your facts straight. Your anger and hate are showing.

  • Bobbyfranky

    Then you do not really have faith in the Church, if it approves it and you walk away from the Church because of that. First, they said Blessed Mary said “PEOPLE of all religions are equal before God.” Second, the Franciscan involved with the nun was not of the Medjugorje phenomenon in the correct sense – he happened to be passing through the area so to speak shortly after the apparitions occurred and heard of them and took an interest in it. He interjected himself into it but was not part of it.

    Remember, think about this: if it is authentic, and God's final attempt to pull an apostasizing world back to Him, then of course Satan will also take interest in it and try to sow disharmony, discord, and disbelief. So be careful, patient, and wait, would be the best prudence. Or else, to speak to quickly against it, you might find yourself inadvertently being a tool of the devil and helping his efforts to stop it and get people to ignore it. Be wise and wait.

  • Bobbyfranky

    Perhaps she came to Medjugorje to fulfill all that she started at Fatima, as she reportedly said. If that is the case, then you are helping the devil in his efforts to block her at Medjugorje, as she tries to pull us back to God during this time of great apostasy that comes before the end of this present world – please read rev 12 and rev 20 to see where we are in that book.

  • Bobbyfranky

    Either way you and me are in trouble! If you think it is from the devil, then this must be the end of the world and the great deception of the anit-Christ at the end of the present world as mentioned in the Bible. Or, if it IS Blessed Mary, then this must be the end of the present world since she said at the end of this phenomenon Satan's power over the world will be broken FOREVER — this only happens at the end of the present world.

    So either way you slice, which ever side you are on, you better crack open those rosary beads and pray pray pray!!!

  • Bobbyfranky

    The bishop is NOT the authority there. The CDF is, so get off that horse, it's dead already.

  • Bobbyfranky

    You are too proud and go too far. The Church HAS NOT rejected Medjugorje (the bishop there has no authority in the matter – it is in the hands of the CDF) so you are out of line. There is no heresy, disobedience, or dissent. Should the Church rule in the affirmative, then you will find yourself guilty of being a tool of Satan and his efforts to discredit it.

    May I suggest you pray a rosary?

    God bless you.

  • Bobbyfranky

    And remember, pride goeth before the fall.

    God bless.

  • Marek
  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SYB3HKGBAXBBMRVDAJMVYN5UGI Desolation

    I am not so fast to discredit the reported apparitions of GOSPA to the six Medjugorje  children because it is my firmly held belief that contact with the divine realm does occur when the divine believes it is necessary to contact out world and when the suitable person(s) have been selected to receive such visions. Many in the Catholic church discount these visions and label them as a hoax and a blasphemy.  Yet, despite all the remarks against the visions no proof is offered to absolutely prove them false. It is therefore a matter of FAITH. The visionaries say they see and speak with GOSPA and she relays messages and information to them. Can they prove it? NO! Can we prove they do not? Also NO!  Faith transcends all mortal barriers.
    I went to Medjugorje in June of 2001 and while I did NOT have an apparition or a locution from GOSPA, I knew, as a matter of FAITH that She was present there as She is everywhere.
    Many faithful journey tens of thousands of miles to visit Medjugorje and many claim visions, miracles and healing. Most say they leave Medjugorge with a new resolve to reform their lives, to be better neighbors, to seek peace and come closer to God.
    If THAT is the result of a “hoax” then we could use many more!

  • Fr Thomas Poovathinkal

    MANY CHURCH LEADERS ARE EITHER MERE INTELLECTUALS OR RITUALISTS. RITUALISTS ABOUND,

    WHEREAS INTELLECTUALS ARE NOT MANY. A THIRD AND FOURTH  CATEGORY ARE THAT OF

    DOGMATISTS AND LAW-DEALERS (CANONISTS).

    GOD AND GOD’S SAINTS,  EVEN THE MOTHER OF GOD CANNOT GET TO THE PEOPLE UNLESS THEY

    SQUEEZE THROUGH THE TRAPS THESE CLEVER MEN (/WOMEN!) HAVE SET UP. THEY ARE LIKE THE

    WEAKEST LINKS IN A CHAIN COMING TO PLAY THEIR ROLE AS MERE CONTROLLERS.

    MANY OF THEM WILL TELL YOU WHAT THEY HAVE DONE FOR THE LORD, BUT HOW MANY OF THEM

    DO TELL YOU WHAT THE LORD HAS DONE FOR THEM? A SIGN OF APOSTLESHIP!
     

    SINCE THEY ARE NOT EMPOWERED TO BE, OR EXPERIENCED AS,  APOSTLES, THEY CREATE THE

    ILLUSION OF MERE POWER AS AUTHORITY THROUGH CONTROL, AND CONTROL AND CONTROL.

    “BY THEIR FRUITS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM”, WHETHER THE CHURCH IS BEING BUILT OR BEING

    DESTROYED.

    BY REPLACING THE WORD OF GOD WITH THEIR OWN MATERIALS: RITUAL, DOGMA, DRAMA, AND

    MANY POPULAR DEVOTIONS  AND THE REST  THEY KEEP THE PEOPLE OCCUPIED AND LIFE AND ITS

    OPPORTUNITIES SLIP AWAY; AT THE END THE ENEMY IS THE WINNER AND JESUS THE LOSER.

    Fr Thomas Poovathinkal

  • Fr Thomas Poovathinkal

    WERE THE 12 APOSTLES CARRYING THEIR GIRLS WITH THEM WHEN THEY FOLLOWED JESUS

    “LEAVING  ASIDE EVERYTHING” THEY HAD? 

    FORGET NEGLIGIBLE ABERRATIONS IF THERE ARE..

    IF THE ANSWER IS A CATEGORICAL ‘YES’  THEN, MARRIED PRIESTHOOD (APOSTLESHIP!)  MAY

    BE RECOMMENDED AS THE IDEAL NORM.

    AND WHY DID JESUS SPEAK OF ‘HIJADAS’ FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD?

    WHAT DO YOU LEARN FROM THE EXEMPLARY  LIFE AND TEACHING OF THE GREATEST

    APOSTLE: ST.PAUL?

    IF ALL THESE ELEMENTS ARE POSITIVE ABOUT MARRIAGE IN THE CONTEXT OF FOLLOWING

    JESUS THE SON OF GOD, WHO WAS  HIMSELF SINGLE BESIDES, I WOULD GO FOR 12 OR EVEN

    TWELVE THOUSAND ……..HA …….HA …..HA ……WHAT A HEAVEN ON EARTH!

    THOSE WHO UNDERTAKE “TO FOLLOW”  JESUS FOR EARNING MERE EARTHLY BREAD MAY

    STRUGGLE TO HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH THE WORLDS BUT ELSEWHERE.

    POOR CARDINALS ……..AND BISHOPS…AND SO MANY….. PRIESTS TOO!

    NO WONDER WHY THE CHURCH (THE OFFICIAL ONE AND ITS SHEEP) IS BEING LIQUIDATED IN

    EUROPE AND ELSEWHERE. DOES THE LORD TOLERATE HYPOCRISY?

    Fr Thomas Poovathinkal

  • Fr Thomas Poovathinkal

    “As for married priests, going back in history the first ever priests
    were ALL married.”

    HIS FIRST PRIESTS, THE TWELVE, ALL WERE MARRIED!  AND WHAT ABOUT ST.JOHN? HE TOO?

    YES, OFCOURSE, AMONG THE TWELVE THERE WERE MARRIED  PEOPLE; MAY BE EVEN THE

    MAJORITY OF THEM; AND THEY REMAINED  AS  SUCH FOR MANY YEARS

    UNTIL THEY MATURED IN THEIR MARRIAGES……HAD CHILDREN ……AND ALL THAT GO WITH

    MARRIAGES…BUT WHEN JESUS CALLED…….LIKE RIPE FRUITS AT THE TOUCH OF HIS FINGERS  

    THEY ALL, ONE BY ONE  DROPPED INTO HIS  SACRED HANDS. IT ALL HAPPENED……AND  EVER

    SINCE IT WAS DIFFERENT.

    THEY “LEFT EVERTHING THEY HAD…

    ST. PETER, IT WAS WHO ASKED JESUS ONCE,

    “LORD, WE HAVE LEFT EVERYTHING FOR YOU, WHAT ABOUT US… WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO

    GIVE US…

    THE QUERY AND THE PROMISE (REPLY) REVEAL A LOT.

    Fr Thomas Poovathinkal

  • Queuejt61

    Robert J, do you know that PopeJohnPaul2 consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and Sacred Heart of Jesus in 1986 ? -maybe you weren’t born – thats the reason the wall came down in ’89.

    And, it was exactly 70 years since the Russians were imprisoned under communism – the same length as the enslavement of the Jews in Babylon.

    This significance of this ‘coincidence’ is what Jesus said in TrueLifeInGod  that  out of His Resurrected Daughter, Russia, will come an army of disciples who will unify His Church – something to look forward to.

    Medjugorje, by the way is the conclusion of Fatima and Garibandal.