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Christians should not rejoice at death of Osama bin Laden, says Vatican spokesman

By on Monday, 2 May 2011

New Yorkers celebrate news of Bin Laden's death at Ground Zero in the early hours of the morning (AP Photo/Tina Fineberg)

New Yorkers celebrate news of Bin Laden's death at Ground Zero in the early hours of the morning (AP Photo/Tina Fineberg)

Christians should never rejoice at the death of a man, Vatican spokesman Fr Federico Lombardi has said following the death of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan yesterday.

The world’s most wanted man was killed by US forces at a compound in Abbottabad, north-west Pakistan, following a tip-off dating back to last August. In a special press conference in Washington last night at 10.30 (3.30AM GMT) President Barack Obama announced that the Saudi-born fugitive, responsible for the September 11 attacks on the United States which killed 3,000 people, was dead. “Justice has been done,” the US president said.

But Fr Federico Lombardi said in a statement this morning in Rome that we should not rejoice at the death of a human being.

He said: “Osama bin Laden – as we all know – was gravely responsible for promoting division and hatred between peoples, causing the end of countless innocent lives, and of exploiting religions to this end.

“Faced with the death of a man, a Christian never rejoices, but reflects on the serious responsibility of each and every one of us before God and before man, and hopes and commits himself so that no event be an opportunity for further growth of hatred, but for peace.”

Earlier today Prime Minister David Cameron welcomed the news, saying: “The news that Osama Bin Laden is dead will bring great relief to people across the world.”

  • Bobert432

    Right.. and WHO is dishing out the justice in this scenario? In the Divine Mercy chaplet, we pray for God to have MERCY on 9 different groups of people, on each of the nine days of the novena, respectively, including: (1) ALL mankind (4) those who do not believe and who do not yet know me.

    Did Our Lady ask Faustina to pray in vain? Because it seems like ALL of mankind is open to God’s mercy; and that we are supposed to pray for them. Yes, I agree that each individual must be penitent to receive God’s mercy. No, I don’t have good reason to believe Bin Laden was penitent. But it is not I or you who gets to sentence people to divine justice. We do not pray that God cast the un-penitient into Hell, or that they all be killed. We pray for God to have mercy on them. This isn’t a “Liberal” position.

    Sk’s concise statement has it exactly right. Forgive those who have sinned against you; and don’t fill your heart with hatred.

  • deekay

    Have you read revalations?

  • Martin

    Whether you agree with Bin Laden or not will ultimately be influenced with your view of history and personal politics.

    No side is innocent in this affair and all are guilty of killing innocents in the pursuit of victory.

    Whilst it is natural to want to choose sides in this whole affair we should remember that it is for Sinners that Jesus came and he desires even the worst of them to come to him and be saved.

    If he didnt we would all be lost.

    Now if you would agree that we can only truely repent when we have recieved the truth of the Gospel, then i would suggest that it was likely that Bin Laden had never heard the Gospel (i may be wrong). If he hadn’t then you cant really be suggesting that he should be repenting to the very forces he was fighting? He was fighting an ethos/political system. Why should he consider himself wrong in the first place in this scenario?
    He (in his mind) was fighting a morally bankrupt system.

    Maybe if we had spent as much effort in evangualising the middle east as we do in making war with it then maybe the mission of the church (Spreading the Gospel of Christ into all the world) would be achieved that much quicker and with better results.

    Whilst by no means justifying Bin Laden or even suggesting he was right (because he wasnt), It is a shame that we dont mobilise the relevant forces to combat abortion or such like. We kill far more people in the west legally than he could ever have dreamed of!

    God save us all.

  • deekay

    I mean revelations?…with an e not a

  • Ratbag

    I, too, agree with Father Lombardi.

    God alone is now Osama Bin Laden’s judge and jury. The forces that killed him have effectively saved us the burden – and the possibility – of a televised show trial, which would be as far removed from Nuremberg as it would get. Would any earthly justice metered out to OBL have been enough for anyone to satisfy themselves that justice has been done?

    No.

    What will the world learn from this? Will it EVER learn from this?

    There are murderous, corrupt governments today which should be given the sharp shrift but, because they don’t pose a threat to world peace or resources, they are left alone to cause more damage to their own people than Osama Bin Laden has done in his own murderous campaign. Think about it! Every life lost IS a life lost too many to murder, violence and terrorism.

    Much has been said about the presence of Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe and his wife at Blessed John Paul II’s beatification. It was an uncomfortable situation, yes, but the Vatican did right to invite him. That way, the world can see him for what he is. The cameras don’t lie. Also, God is his judge and jury and, as he is alive, there is every opportunity for him to repent and return his country once more to being the bread basket of Africa.

    Then again, deluded people are not the easiest people to get through to.

    Catholics need to have a presence in Zimbabwe to both live their lives and to be reliable, truthful witnesses to the heinous things that are happening there. Mugabe has banned the BBC and other world media from that country and they have to rely on other countries to provide bases from which they can report. If the Vatican sought to refuse Mugabe an invite, it would cause more and more damage… and, before you say it, I ain’t talking about reputations. I’m talking about people.

    If the western media don’t put the slaughter of innocent Christians on their nightly bulletins, then what are the chances of reporting a similar thing happening elsewhere?

    We pray to the Holy Spirit to help turn misguided minds and hateful hearts to ways of peace and commend them to the Divine Mercy of Jesus Christ and Mary’s Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart.

    Let us not forget our brothers and sisters in Christ, who live in the Middle East, as they will have much more to suffer – and in Pakistan, especially.

  • Anonymous

    Joseph is speaking in very crude terms, but what he is saying is for the most part true.

    During the soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Bin Laden and his fighters received American and Saudi funding and help from the CIA, in order to help remove the soviets. The US sponsoring terrorists in order to try and remove the soviets. Evidence is patchier on whether or not the CIA directly trained either Bin Laden or his forces, but they were certainly helped and encouraged.

    On the second point, that Osama will be more powerful in death – as a martyr, well I wouldn’t want to speculate, and believe that is impossible to know. I would expect that with the symbolic head of the organization gone people sharing the same sentiments will likely loose hope or be discouraged.

    However, the overall effect of two foreign wars, in which the majority of the causalities have been innocent civilians – I would certainly expect to create more terrorists and more attacks.

    Since 9/11, and our two foreign conflicts have we encountered more or less terrorism? More certainly, which puts to rest the idea that you are safer in throwing your weight about, than staying ‘vulnerable’ and doing nothing.

  • Anonymous

    ‘Our Lady and the Saints to defend us’ Saints don’t defend us, where do you get this idea from?!

    ‘Nothing happens unless God permits it.’ Free will, means that God cannot intervene most of the time, because to act would be for us to loose our free-will. To say this would mean that God sanctioned WWII and the millions that died as a consequence.

  • Anonymous

    So, not angering God is your reason for not celebrating? Is it simply not inherently wrong to celebrate the death of another human-being?

  • Anonymous

    To celebrate the death of someone evil is to start to sink down to their level. Well said Bobert432 finally a true Christian response!

  • Anonymous

    ‘He twisted their religion and he caused the death of even more Muslims than Christians.’

    So right, this is forgotten, and everything is viewed through a false lens of religious intolerance.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TLEOAKMJBTOACXJNBLSV6LFTCI tommo

    Absolutely spot on. Agree 100% however serious the crimes of this man.

  • Ratbag

    Christians will always be hated. Christ told us so.

    Only for victory in Lepanto would Europe become Muslim.

    The Holy Rosary ensured that victory.

    That’s why we need the Holy Rosary now.

  • Bridget

    So many false accusations about the Pope Pius X1th attitude(and Cardinal Pacelli) to Hitler are bandied about in the press and fiction, so maybe you might like the true version..

    : http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/persecution/pch0229.htm

  • Anonymous

    To say that their are no Christian extremists is totally incorrect.
    How about the 8 murders and 17 attempted murders on abortion doctors? How about the 383 death threats, 153 assaults and 3 kidnappings on people working at abortion clinics? How about the 41 bombings on abortion clinics? Tell me that this isn’t Christian terrorism.

    Furthermore you are ignoring the KKK which was a highly Christian group, and committed thousands of beatings, lynchings, murder and rape of black. How about the Christian racist groups such as the Aryan Nations that hates Jews, Muslims and Black?
    How about the Christian that planned and executed the Oklahoma city bombing that killed 168 Americans and injured 680?

    Let me be clear I am a Catholic Christian myself, but for you to deny any elements of Christian extremism is just not representative of the truth.

  • Jeannine

    The point of the article is to question whether Christians should rejoice over the death of a man who freely chose evil over good.

    It’s not about government culpability.

    BTW, Bin Laden will never be a martyr to the typical Muslim. He killed many of them too.

  • Mikael Grut

    I agree. Doesn’t the Bible say that “you shall not kill”? There is no footnote saying that it is alright to kill Osama bin Laden. It was really weird to see the bloodthirsty and revengeful crowds in America celebrating his death.
    Mikael Grut

  • Tbbrown1

    I’m not much on religion, but Bin Laden got just what he had coming. Never give a sucker an even break, he didn’t !

  • WILLIAM

    Again we see the roman church of the caesers and murderers of Christians attempting to preach Christian teaching authority where none exists.

  • Patty

    They cry in anguish and Yahweh hears, and rescues them from all their troubles. Psalm 34:17

    I have to say that the God himself purged the earth with a flood, destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, and Jericho to get rid of wickedness out of the lives of his worthy people. As a Christian I do not rejoice, but feel great relief that our world is rid of a man who was guided by Satan.

  • Ratbag

    The KKK were anti-Catholic.

  • Patty

    The US has always had opened arms to help educate people of other nations. The US cannot be blamed for what other men do with the knowledge that is shared. Pointing fingers is just a lame excuse. Thank the world for people like Bush who started the quest to destroy terrorism in the world.

  • Ratbag

    The ‘black legend’ about Pope Pius XII was written so convincingly that certain people still believe it’s true, in spite of exhaustive efforts by both Jew and Catholic groups to right this heinous wrong against this holy man. In fact, Eugenio Pacelli (aka Pius XII) knew how dangerous the Nazis were and what they were capable of before Poland was invaded.

  • bob b

    I only wish He would have acted much earlier – like before 9/11/2001.
    I’m glad that evil man is dead. If God grants me access to Heaven upon my death – I’ll be mighty mad if I see the likes of Adolph H and Osama B in that celestial place. On second thought, that’s not gonna happen – because I believe God is just. Oh, and it’ll be a ‘cold day in you know where’, before I’m gonna pray for this lunatic’s soul. That would be tandamount to blasphemy.

  • Anonymous

    Yes I realize that, but Bwaj was stating that there is no Christian terrorism – he did not specify the denomination. As when we talk about Islamic terrorism and we do not make distinctions when with Islam there are many different groups within Islam. (Many more than just Sunni and Shia like many people think)

    What you say is perfectly true nevertheless, Catholics used to be a persecuted group in America in general; people forget that. Many people were amazed to see Kennedy elected as the first Catholic president, and that started to change things.

  • Khaida

    I agree GOD created Lucifer, ol’ Pharoh, Hitler,Stalin, Osama bin Laden AND GEORGE W. BUSH, who also is just like Satan…Satan lied to EVE about the apple and G.W. BUSH lied to the AMERICAN people about the weapons of mass destruction; all of these souless men were pawns of satan…judge, jury and executioners of death, millions of death. THEY ALL “created havoc in this world ” and the havoc they created will last forever because they killed off generations of people to come and because their actions will affect this planet to the end.

    I agree Osama Bin LADEN had to be taken out so we can at least have hopes that his demise will discourage and lower the number of terrorist attacks, although that may be wishful thinking, but I don’t think we should celibrate. I think we should pray that things improve world wide and give thanks that out of the two mass murders left, at least one mass murderer and trouble maker have been removed from among mankind, but I cannot see having parties, singing and dancing in the streets because he was killed. No murders should be celibrated. The bible says “thy shall not kill” so if and when we do kill, why would Christians rejoice?

    We should rejoice about things like weddings, new babies, love ones being healed, saving a life etc. There are so many things to rejoice about that why bring ourselves down to the level of evil people by taking delight in the misery of others. THAT IS NOT the Christian way. Lets hope that when KARMA catches up with GEORGE W. BUSH that people will not rejoice but instead, do as you suggested and that is to breathe a sigh of relief!

    I’m just curious, why did you not add Bush to the list of evil-doers? Our country would not be in the economic condition it is in had we not gone into a war based on a lie. Please don’t say this present president increased the national debt…he did that; that is already understood because it definitely takes money to make money. Try going to a casino without money and see how much money one can win. Anyway, Bush lied on SADDAM HUSSEIN. Doesn’t the bible speak about bearing false witness and didn’t BUSH create a scenario to make people agree with him about going to war.Didn’t Bush first infer that SADDAM HUSSEIN was responsible for 911? Yes ALL those people you named were terrible people, but how do you NOT see our ex-president, who was never elected BUT chosen by the SUPREME court and whose second term is still in question because of ballot tampering; how is it that you do not see him BEING THE SAME satanic persons as the others?

  • Anonymous

    The Bible says in Hebrew “Lo tirtzach” – You shall not murder.

    It doesn’t include lawful killing, and it most certainly doesn’t include the slaying of anyone who answers the description of Amalek: the exterminationist adversary of the Jews.

  • KHAIDA

    aw c’mon….”thank the world for people like BUSH?” BUSH OPENED PANDORA’S BOX! We REALLY NEED TO PRAY! Pray that the key to ARMAGEDDON was not in that BOX. This mess was started to revenge BUSH’S DAD. You should google the history that led us up to this point. It is sad. I could cry every time I think about how pleasant things were when WILLIAM J CLINTON was in office. WE EVEN HAD REAL MONEY IN THE BANK…no debts to CHINA and whomever else…THREE TRILLION EXCESS MONEY IN THE TREASURY…living the life and now we are almost a third world country and we should THANK BUSH!? MANY people are still trying to figure out WHY Bush is not being tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

    SEE BELOW THE LINKS AND INFORMATION FROM GOOGLE.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/dec/23/iraq.israel

    EXCERPT FROM LINK ABOVE:

    “Bush has thrown open Pandora’s box in a paradise for international terrorists

    2003 has been a crucial year for the Middle East, with war in Iraq and the continuing intifada in Israel. The Guardian’s acclaimed commentator on the region assesses what happened, what it means, and where it might lead next year….

    David Hirst
    The Guardian, Tuesday 23 December 2003 02.49 GMT
    Article history

    This was the year the Middle East became the undisputed, tumultuous centre of global politics. When, at dawn on March 20 the US and its British ally went to war against Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, they were intervening in the region on such a scale that Arabs everywhere compared the invasion, in its potential geopolitical significance, to that seminal upheaval of the last century:

    http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1223-09.htm

    MORE INFORMATION RE: PANDORA’S BOX AND BUSH

    http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&pq=did%20bush%20open%20pandora's%20box%20to&xhr=t&q=SHOULD%20BUSH%20BE%20tried%20for%20war%20crimes&cp=13&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&aq=0&aqi=&aql=&oq=SHOULD+BUSH+B&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=403b8f2dd3c17a17

    THE LINK ABOVE HAVE OVER A MILLION RESULTS on why BUSH SHOULD be tried for war crimes.

    If we live for a Billion years we can never read all there is about the horrors related to this ex-president.

  • Weary Convert

    Paulsays writes of the British mandate which ended in 1948 and the Israeli occupation in 1967 as though nothing happened in between. But after the end of the mandate the UN voted to partition Palestine between a Jewish and an Arab state. However, the position of the Arab countries was never to recognise Isreal’s right to exist – until a badly battered Egypt did so in 1979.

    I suppose that most states have taken land from others but Israel is unfortunate in being small and recently formed. But then, in the formation of Arab states after the destruction of the Turkish Empire after WWI, how many of the inhabitants were asked if they wanted to be citizens of Syria, or Jordan and the rest?

    The relocation of Poland at the end of WWII to the benefit of the Russians is, I suppose, a rather similar and equally recent case but then Russia is far too big, even now, to make a fuss about. The United States is perhaps the prime example of a state taking over huge areas of other countries but then, how many inhabitants were consulted either over the Spanish take over of most of the New World or its breakup and the formation of separate states from the remains? And then, did the inhabitants want the Russian absorption of Siberia etc ?

    As with so many political considerations, so much depends on where you draw the starting line.

    Insofar as Isreal is concerned, there is an actual democracy that has created so much out of virtually nothing while the Palestinians have spent the same period of time complaining about their lot but doing little practical about it. Of course Israel was helped by American money but then the surrounding Arab states have the advantage of the unimaginable income Arabs receive from Oil and, if they wished, they could have supported the Palestinians as much as the Americans support Israel. But either they preferred to hang on to their money or they gave some and it disappeared in the pit of corruption that defines the Arab world.

    Within Israel itself, the main problem politically is that because their democracy is so geared to proportionate representation, the small religious parties have an influence far outweighing their real support and are always egging the government on to create more settlements that only exaceraabte the problems.

    It is interesting that when one examines these backward-looking religious parties with their false sense of purity and their wildly unrealistic view of history and religion, one is inevitably reminded of the similar approach of the Catholic Ultras who are so prominent on this website.

  • Anonymous

    Jesus also said to Sister Faustina that whoever will not pass through the gates of mercy will have to pass through the gates of justice.

    Osama bin Laden hated Christians, therefore he hated God, and died in that hatred. Jesus said “If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first.”

  • Bwaj

    Wrong Jeannine,
    you listen too much to the nonsense taught by western politicians and western church leaders. Most Muslims do believe what Bin Laden said and did because the Qur’an tells Muslims to fight and kill non-Muslims until we convert to their religion. It also says Muslims should not be the friends of Jews and Christians or they will be like Jews and Christians. To a Muslim it is only a sin and crime to kill a Muslim who follows the Qur’an not non-Muslims and Muslims who befriend non-Muslims. On the contrary in the Qur’an because Bin Laden was killed by the US Forces nearly all Muslims will see him wrongly as a martyr when he is not. I believe the US government knew this when they disposed of his body the way they did. Ref: ‘Osama Bin Laden: The power of shrines’ By Jon Kelly (BBC News: 4 May 2011) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13264959 which shows why Bin Laden was buried at sea.

  • Bwaj

    Then you know nothing about the Battles at Vienna and Lepanto. As for WWII – God did chastise the world because Our Lady warned mankind at Fatima to repent but mankind would not. As for your claim about ‘free-will’: wrong. What about Our Lord saying to those cities which refused to heed His call to repent they would be reduced to ashes? You have chosen to ignore God warns us in the Scriptures He chastises those He loves if they turn from Him (Heb:12.5-11). Rev:6.1-8 shows the punishment nations face for rejecting the Gospel. Your liberal claim concerning free-will errs as many times the Scriptures tell us by permitting chastisements (sufferings) God brings those who have gone astray back to Him, so they will ‘”DO PENANCE”‘ and be saved. In fact Our divine King Jesus Christ says likewise (Rev:2.19).

  • Bwaj

    Unless he repented before he died then you can not ask God to forgive him – however, if he repented before his death and converted then you would have no choice as it is your Christian duty. Until a person who hates you or considers you his enemy dies it is it your duty to pray that he be forgiven and be converted – no matter what rubbish some Christians tell you because it is a divine command (St. Lk:6.27,35-37) but if he / she dies without repenting then he has denied Christ.

  • DBMcGinnity

    Without Justified Belief
    As long as The Roman Catholic Church teaches fear and superstition about “Life after Death” and it’s concomitant mythology, including, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory. Holy Souls, Salvation, Angels Saints, Miracles and generalised divine interventions, that are without one iota of logic or evidence, the people of world will continue to live in conflict. The “Life after Death” illusion and all other miraculous and superstitious phenomena is so easy to explain in neurological and psychological epistemology

    It can no longer be considered moral for the Roman Catholic Church to promulgate and propagate nonsensical propaganda that is without “common sense” and it can no longer be justified for Christians to pervert and contaminate the minds and spirit of present and future generations of children with traditional legends and folklore that are beyond rational belief.

    The teaching of all religious education should be optional, but discouraged because it promotes religious and racial disharmony. Thank goodness that there is good reason for optimism that the age of rationality is here, and the epoch of ecclesiastical gobbledygook will soon be gone for good.

    Within the Roman Catholic Church there is no credible knowledge or understanding in epistemological terms of logic or proof and as defined by The Stanford University Encyclopaedia of Philosophy.

    The Stanford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy says:
    “Defined narrowly, epistemology is the study of knowledge and justified belief. As the study of knowledge, epistemology is concerned with the following questions: What are the necessary and sufficient conditions of knowledge? What are its sources? What is its structure, and what are its limits? As the study of justified belief, epistemology aims to answer questions such as: How we are to understand the concept of justification? What makes justified beliefs justified? Is justification internal or external to one’s own mind? Understood more broadly, epistemology is about issues having to do with the creation and dissemination of knowledge in particular areas of inquiry. This article will provide a systematic overview of the problems that the questions above raise and focus in some depth on issues relating to the structure and the limits of knowledge and justification”

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epistemology/

    If someone could provide me with even a smattering of logic and justification for catholic teaching, I would be deeply appreciative. Bible quotes, heavenly visions, apparitions and saintly prognostications are not proof of anything because they can easily be explained in psychodynamic terms.

  • Bwaj

    Wrong. Bin Laden is in Hell it is only wishy washy liberals who say otherwise because JESUS Who is GOD tells us to be saved we must believe in Him (St. Jn:3.16) and be baptized (St. Mk:16.16) because whoever does not believe in Him condemns himself (St. Mk:16.16 St. Jn:3.18) and God’s wrath remains upon him (St. Jn:3.35-36). If you truly believed Our Saviour’s commands you would know anyone who denies Jesus or refuses Baptism chooses not to be saved. Bin Laden attacked the US and the west because it symbolized ‘the Crusader religion’ that is (Catholic) Christianity and he called on Christians to accept Islam. Perhaps you should read 1 St. Jn:4.3 2 St. Jn:7 and 1 St. Jn:2.22-23. Does Our Saviour tell us we can commit murder to spread the true Faith? No. Murder is forbidden (St. Mtt:19.18), however, the executing evildoers (Gen:19.6 St. Mtt:26.52).and defensive warfare have always been permitted (Rmns:13.1-5).

  • Bwaj

    You listen too much to the nonsense taught by western politicians and western church leaders. Most Muslims do believe what Bin Laden said and did because the Qur’an tells Muslims to fight and kill non-Muslims until we convert to their religion. It also says Muslims should not be the friends of Jews and Christians or they will be like Jews and Christians. To a Muslim it is only a sin and crime to kill a Muslim who follows the Qur’an not non-Muslims and Muslims who befriend non-Muslims. On the contrary in the Qur’an because Bin Laden was killed by the US Forces nearly all Muslims will see him wrongly as a martyr when he is not. I believe the US government knew this when they disposed of his body the way they did. Ref: ‘Osama Bin Laden: The power of shrines’ By Jon Kelly (BBC News: 4 May 2011) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13264959 which shows why Bin Laden was buried at sea.

  • Bwaj

    No OBL was deceived by the Qur’an and what it teaches. It does not teach peace, love and tolerance. Anyone who tells you this is a liar because I’ve actually examined it.

  • Bwaj

    There are no Christian extremists.

  • Jeannine

    Once again, the point of the article is to question whether Christians should rejoice over the death of a man who freely chose evil over good.

    It’s not about government culpability nor is it about GW Bush.

    Everyone should universally agree that Stalin & Hitler were evil men & that was why I mentioned them for comparison purposes.

  • Jeannine

    I don’t listen to western politicians. I listen to non-Iman Muslim moderates, a Muslim relative & her family, & my Muslim friends. I also read information written by from Fr Samir Khalil Samir, SJ, an advisor to the Pope on Islamic matters.

  • Bwaj

    No Paul. All Muslims base their beliefs on the Qur’an and the Had’iths (teachings, sayings and beliefs of Muhammad and his early followers). Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. I’m telling you what I’ve actually read in the Qur’an. If you want me to send you quotes to prove what I’m writing or to put them up on this page just let me know.

    I do believe with Fr. Lombardi we shouldn’t be having a song and dance about it – however, too many Catholics today falsely believe Divine Mercy has totally replaced Divine Justice – so we can pray for Bin Laden after his death even though he showed no sign of repentance. The Catholic Catechism tells us the the faithful go immediately to Heaven so do not need our prayers, the faithful undergoing purification are to be prayed for, but those who died impenitent (in mortal sin) go immediately to hellfire.

    While ‘God desires not the death of the sinner – but that he turn from his wicked ways and live’ we are also told by God through His divine Son if we desire eternal life we must not commit murder (St. Mtt:19.18) and whoever sheds the blood of man shall be put to death (Gen:9.6 St. Mtt:26.52) which is authorized for those in civil authority to do (Rmns:13.1-5) so just as the death penalty is authorized so too is defensive warfare – don’t forget we went into Afghanistan because the Taliban would not surrender Bin Laden and Al-Q’aeda. Offensive warfare, that is, invading other countries for it’s own sake e.g. oil (Iraq) on a lie (WMD) or because we don’t like the ruler (Libya) is not permitted.

  • Bwaj

    No Paul. All Muslims base their beliefs on the Qur’an and the Had’iths (teachings, sayings and beliefs of Muhammad and his early followers). Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. I’m telling you what I’ve actually read in the Qur’an. If you want me to send you quotes to prove what I’m writing or to put them up on this page just let me know.

    I do believe with Fr. Lombardi we shouldn’t be having a song and dance about it – however, too many Catholics today falsely believe Divine Mercy has totally replaced Divine Justice – so we can pray for Bin Laden after his death even though he showed no sign of repentance. The Catholic Catechism tells us the the faithful go immediately to Heaven so do not need our prayers, the faithful undergoing purification are to be prayed for, but those who died impenitent (in mortal sin) go immediately to hellfire.

    While ‘God desires not the death of the sinner – but that he turn from his wicked ways and live’ we are also told by God through His divine Son if we desire eternal life we must not commit murder (St. Mtt:19.18) and whoever sheds the blood of man shall be put to death (Gen:9.6 St. Mtt:26.52) which is authorized for those in civil authority to do (Rmns:13.1-5) so just as the death penalty is authorized so too is defensive warfare – don’t forget we went into Afghanistan because the Taliban would not surrender Bin Laden and Al-Q’aeda. Offensive warfare, that is, invading other countries for it’s own sake e.g. oil (Iraq) on a lie (WMD) or because we don’t like the ruler (Libya) is not permitted.

  • Thomas M.P.

    I think a slight change in the wording would have been more appropriate. Instead of “Christians should never rejoice at the death of a man” the more appropriate and correct wording would have been “Christians should never rejoice at the killing of a man.”

    For us Christians, as well as according to the beliefs of many religions, death is a cause of joy because it is something like a door which opens into the Paradise where we will live in eternity with our Creator.

    God has given life and God alone has the right to take it, however bad a man is. If he is too dangerous for society at large, he should be segregated from society and confined to some place where he cannot harm any one. Moreover constant efforts should be made to reform him.

    Good and evil are present everywhere in varying degrees. Good and evil are present in each one of us in varying degrees.

  • Jeannine

    I agree with almost everything you stated except your rationale on Bin Laden’s raison d’etre. Whether he believed the ethos/political system he was fighting against or whether or not he heard the Gospel are not reasons to sympathize with this man. He was going against natural law: intentionally killing innocent people. Even non-Christians of goodwill do not disregard natural law.

    Being contrite is not only a Christian “thing.” As far as I know all religions have in place some sort of repentance mechanism. Do we know if Bin Laden truly repented internally? Of course not. Only God knows what’s in everyone’s heart. Bin Laden will be more than fairly judged by God. I, as a person of good will, am relieved that Bin Laden is not alive to create more untold suffering on innocent people.

  • Martin

    So who holds the authority to teach the Christian faith then William?

    I hope in your mind that you at least recognise the Christian faith? if so which Christian authority has that task?

    If you mean protestantism, which is where i came from, which group would you give the authority to do that?

    Would it be the Anglicans? The Methodists? The Evangelicals? The Baptists? The Penticostals? or one of the many others?

    Would any of them listen to the other one even if they had the authority? Probably no, so once again who holds the title of Christian Teaching Authority?

    It has been my experience that the more you follow the Christian family tree of splits, that though the group is smaller, or younger in years, it nearly always claims to have that teaching authority and attempts to claim its validility over its parent by some claim of truer teaching. The Baptist for instance would likely see that authority in their pastor, and it would claim to be more close to the original church than most.
    The point i am making here is that everyone will claim some sort of authority to teach/preach but what is it based on?

    If you say the bible, then all christians will claim that authority, but who has the greater claim? If you say the Holy Spirit, same again, who has the greater claim to hearing from him?

    If you have a grudge against the Catholic Church, then fine, but dont look through glasses that only allow you to see the world from one view.

    You would do well to remember that the longer the church has been in existance (i am refering here to denominations) then there has been longer to mess up. Protestants and Catholics have both killed each other, Catholics have just had longer to make mistakes than they have. They should look to their own house before throwing stones. I think you could find that they have problems of their own.

    If you have any serious comments to make, please do and i will try to answer them, but at least give a reason for your rants as you make statements without evidence and therefore they carry no authority that i can debate with. ;)

  • ACS

    This is absolutely correct. What should distinguish us as civilised nations, with a strong Christian heritage, is our civilised behaviour. We are in danger of behaving in the same callous way as the terrorists.

    Principles of Christianity include both mercy and justice. We are all dependent on the first so that we may face the second.

  • Anonymous

    Hate occurs for many different reasons. Difference of belief is one such reason.
    It is not simply because we are ‘Christian’. Jews and Muslims encounter similar hatred.
    It is to be expected , it is human-nature.

    God is not a God of revenge and war, your reference to the Battle of Lepanto, and others on here to the crusades is very disturbing.
    At least the majority of Muslims that have a problem with the West manage to refer to events in the last century in the Middles-east rather than ‘Holy War’ of centuries ago.

    How did Jesus act towards the Roman occupiers? He did nothing, and called for no violence. Even as he was being arrested by the Romans and Simon Peter cut the ear off of the high priest’s servant Jesus said ‘Put your sword back in its scabbard; am I not to drink the cup that the Father has given me?

    He did not want blood shed on earth, – just because the papacy happened to ignore this does not mean that they were correct.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks, I think you give a good relatively-fair summary of events.
    One thing I would point out though is that Zionism was originally a intellectual movement to start a new state – whereas the Palestinians were settled already.

    Because of this I think a democratic system would have been much easier for the Jews to create – as they did. The Palestinians weren’t starting from scratch in the same respect.
    It also has been made harder for them in that extremism does not breed democracy, as can be seen countless times through history. And what else would arise from the hatred of those who have forcibly annexed parts of your country – with Military help from the West?
    Its almost inevitable.

  • Ashrowley

    Judging by the reaction of many people who were affected by his actions to Bin Laden’s death, perhaps we should also pray that God will bless them with the ability to finally forgive him.

  • Danny

    And it happened as they were coming, when David returned from killing the Philistine, that the women came out of all the cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet King Saul, with tambourines, with joy and with musical instruments.

    And t…he women sang as they played, and said, “Saul has slain his thousands. And David his ten thousands.” (1 Samuel 18:6-7).

    Psalms 58:10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance; he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked, The righteous should rejoice because they love justice and hate evil, not people :-) We should be careful to not have a Holier than thou attitude and presume to be more loving than God, this Hitler had plenty of time to repent!!!

  • http://twitter.com/PJTPOOAM Thomas Poovathinkal

    The extension of the tribal warfare of primordial days of humanity are extended into our own times in different ways and forms. Here, some are with Israel and others are with the Palestinians; we are nobody to put an end to this tendency except by way of mediating Salvation (from the “Self” and Sin!) brought by THE SON OF GOD JESUS CHRIST, who instead of KILLING chose the way of SELF SACRIFICE (GETTING ONESELF KILLED AS AN OFFERING PLANNED AND DEMANDED BY THE FATHER IN HEAVEN).

    THE SON OF GOD IS THE VIRTUOUS CIRCLE……THE SAVING CIRCLE ….THE SAVIOR HIMSELF.

    WHEREAS OTHERS… ALL OF US ……ARE IN VICIOUS CIRCLE. WE NEED TO MAKE A CHOICE AS TO WHAT WE WANT: DEATH, ETERNAL DEATH, OR SALVATION IN AND THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.

    PRAY FOR ALL INCLUDING THE MUSLIMS AND LOVE THEM.

    IT IS THE WAY OF TRUE GOD WHO SAVES AND DOES NOT DESTROY. LET US ALL TURN TO JESUS AND SEE WHAT HE TAUGHT US : “LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, PRAY FOR THOSE WHO PERSECUTE YOU, BLESS THOSE WHO CURSE YOU…….”