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Christians should not rejoice at death of Osama bin Laden, says Vatican spokesman

By on Monday, 2 May 2011

New Yorkers celebrate news of Bin Laden's death at Ground Zero in the early hours of the morning (AP Photo/Tina Fineberg)

New Yorkers celebrate news of Bin Laden's death at Ground Zero in the early hours of the morning (AP Photo/Tina Fineberg)

Christians should never rejoice at the death of a man, Vatican spokesman Fr Federico Lombardi has said following the death of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan yesterday.

The world’s most wanted man was killed by US forces at a compound in Abbottabad, north-west Pakistan, following a tip-off dating back to last August. In a special press conference in Washington last night at 10.30 (3.30AM GMT) President Barack Obama announced that the Saudi-born fugitive, responsible for the September 11 attacks on the United States which killed 3,000 people, was dead. “Justice has been done,” the US president said.

But Fr Federico Lombardi said in a statement this morning in Rome that we should not rejoice at the death of a human being.

He said: “Osama bin Laden – as we all know – was gravely responsible for promoting division and hatred between peoples, causing the end of countless innocent lives, and of exploiting religions to this end.

“Faced with the death of a man, a Christian never rejoices, but reflects on the serious responsibility of each and every one of us before God and before man, and hopes and commits himself so that no event be an opportunity for further growth of hatred, but for peace.”

Earlier today Prime Minister David Cameron welcomed the news, saying: “The news that Osama Bin Laden is dead will bring great relief to people across the world.”

  • Bwaj

    I suggest you actually look at what the Qur’an tells Muslims to believe. Muslims are allowed to lie with their lips to non-Muslims to deceive us as long as they believe the opposite in their hearts and as for Jesuits – I will not comment on how far they have gone appeasing other religions.

  • Bwaj

    Do you follow God’s teachings in the Scriptures or the apostate post-Vatican II inter-religious heresy which Scripture condemns?

  • Bwaj

    I don’t recognize Pagan Satanists like Plato who is in hellfire.

    Athiests will not be excused for denying Jesus Christ our divine Saviour – anyone who denies the Faith expressed in the three Catholic creeds will be cast into hellfire on the Last Day. Many, although not all, athiests teach murdering the innocent, the suffering (euthanasia) and unborn (abortion) as well as promoting perverted sexual nonsense (homosexuality).

    Christians did not develop the atomic bomb – scientists (athiests) did. 91% of global terrorism is connected to Islam not Christianity.

    Between 1918 and it’s final collapse on 22 August 1991 Soviet Russia (athiest) was responsible for many wars around the world. Soviet Russia’s collapse was inevitable the moment Pope John Paul II consecrated the world and Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary on 25 March 1984. The traditional feast day for the Immaculate Heart of Mary (before the Calendar dates were altered in 1969) was 22 August. Karl Marx, a former Jew, rejected his religion (Judaism) and founded Marxism. Research shows from Marx’s own writings he was not an athiest but a Satanist who he worshipped as ‘god’. He believed his false god (Satan) wanted him to destroy all religions and plunge mankind into the abyss.

    Militant athiests have no right whatsoever to teach about morality because moral teaching comes from God through His Church – morality does not come from militant athiests because they owe their erroneous doctrine to Satan worshippers like Karl Marx who chose to reject the true God and worship Satan as ‘god’. On the Last Day not even athiests or followers of other religions will be excused for refusing to accept Christ.

  • DBMcGinnity

    What you have written is sincere and spiritual and I respect your right of freedom to express yourself as you wish. The content of your dialogue, in my view is emotional conjecture based on traditional speculative biblical recitations and quotations, that prove nothing. I still purport that there is no evidence of afterlife whatsoever, and that negates “The Biblical God” ,Satan, Heaven, Hell, Canonisation of Saints etc. As I have already stated, all mystical, miraculous, paranormal and supernatural phenomena can easily be explained in psychodynamic and neurophysiological science.

    I am not an Athiest because I accept God and the pristine of Jesus Christ, but not as depicted in the Bible .

  • DBMcGinnity

    I read http://www.catholiceducation. which is a not balanced viewpoint, and is skewed in favour of Pius XII.

    I have no wish to denigrate the reputation of Pius XII, but regardless of all tributes paid to him after his death by Jewish leaders which was in acknowledgment for his support and influence during the United Nations Vote for Israeli statehood in 1948.

    Pius XII did declare his opposition to the Nazi’s only after the downfall of Mussolini who had been his personal friend. However in the early days from 1929 up to the downfall of Mussolini in 1943 Pope Pius XII was a supporter of fascist ideals. That is why Angelo Roncalli later Pope John XXIII proposed Vatican II that changed the vatican forever. The austere and secretive environment of pre Vatican II will never come back.

    There is sufficient evidence to suggest that Pope Pius XII attempted to set himself up as “The Holy Roman Emperor“. He tried to use Hitler and Mussolini to bring this about but failed to realise that he was dealing with psychopaths who would not keep their word. He came from a privileged aristocratic family who were deeply entrenched within the Vatican Legal Department. The Popes father was The Attorney General at the time of Pius IX, and he the most senior law officer in the Vatican.

    Shortly after his ordination he was appointed to the Vatican Secretariat, and he never served any time as a curate or parish priest and had little experience of life outside the Vatican. It was Giuseppe Pacilli, the Popes brother who wrote “The Lateran Treaty” with Mussolini (http//www.aloha.net/~mikesch/treaty.htm) ). and The “Reichskonkordat” with Hitler in 1933 both were signed by Cardinal Archbishop Pacilli, The Vatican Secretary of State. http://www.concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?kb_header_id=752

  • Bwaj

    Wrong. God gave the Holy Land (or if you prefer ‘Promised Land’) to the Jewish people in the first century AD. Our divine Saviour warned the Jews if they rejected Him they would be scattered among the nations, Jerusalem would fall and the Temple be destroyed – but they would return to ‘the Holy Land’ when the time of the Gentiles (or nations) is over during the beginning of ‘the Last Days’ (St. Lk:21.20-24). St. Paul tells us the Jews (Israel) will embrace the True Faith before Our divine Lord’s Return (Rmns:11.1ff).

    There were no Muslims in the Holy Land because this religion does not come from God and Popes err if they say otherwise. H.H. Pope John Paul II erred by bowing to the Qur’an and kissing it. Before his Beatification I asked many bishops and priests to offer the Mass and pray that God forgive this error and I believe he has been forgiven for this act. If he had not been he would not have been able to be beatified, then, even St. Peter erred in good faith (only being human) and he too was forgiven.

    Israel was not formed in 1948 – that is the claim of Hamas and Hezbollah and their supporters – the Qur’an denies the existence of Israel claiming Abraham offered up Ishmael (which he didn’t) and that all the promises come through him and his descendants (which they don’t). If ‘Israel’ was only invented in 1948 then you are calling St. Paul a liar for he tells us ‘I also am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin’ (Rmns:11.1).

    Most Muslims do not support a two state system. Even Yasser Arafat told the Arab TV networks, while telling the west he was for a two state system, he really believed in a single state system with the Palestinians occupying Jerusalem and destroying Israel. http://www.iris.org.il/quotes/stockhlm.htm Hamas http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/documents/charter.html
    and Hezbollah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah believe in the destruction of Israel. In light of yesterday’s reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas this is disturbing. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/04/palestine-joy-fatah-hamas-reconciliation-pact: ‘The former Hamas prime minister, Ismail Haniyeh, did not help the movement’s image when he praised Osama Bin Laden as an “Arab holy warrior.”‘

    I have not heard you speak up for Christians, Jews or other non-Muslims. All you have done is attack Christianity and defend Islam. I never said Muslim children, teenagers and adults are less human than Christian, Jewish and other non-Muslims. All I have sought to do was correct your error. As with your claim about the Crusades – going off the rubbish you are told by liberal appeasing heretics today – the Crusades were not an offensive war to force Muslims to accept Christianity but defensive warfare to protect Christians from being forced to embrace Islam and defensive warfare is permitted in Rmns:13.1-5 just as executing evil-doers, especially murderers, if they refuse to repent is permitted under divine law (Gen:9.6 Rmns:13.1-5 St. Mtt:26.52).

    There are many Christians, Catholic and non-Catholic, living in Palestine. As far as I am concerned they not the Muslims cheered for the Pope. If Muslims cheered him because he foolishly agrees with their two state solution it is only because they know if they have a two state solution (and God will not allow this) then they believe they will take over the whole Holy Land and kill all the Jewish people – however, the OT Scriptures warn us every nation will turn against the Jewish people – but God will defeat them and be on Israel’s side.

    ‘Bwaj I know that you love to bring up the crusades, as if any of the politics of today have some tenuous connection with a holy war ended over 800 years ago. You must realise that it is people like you the propagate a revisionist view of history’:

    What I have written is not a revisionist view of history – it is yours which is revionist created by appeasers. You will find that out if Europe falls to shar’iah law and you have to choose martyrdom for Catholicism or becoming a Muslim.

    ‘and the false opinion that ALL Muslims and ALL Christians must bitterly hate each other; are only making things worse.’ Wrong again. Only Muslims are commanded to hate and kill non-Muslims if they don’t convert – we are forbidden to hate.

    ‘You think bombs and war will help patch up relations? No. But that’s not your intent, I can see you couldn’t care less about making things better.’ How dare you claim to know what my intentions are!

    Shall I tell you what is really hateful of us?: It is seeking a ‘false peace’ between religions by telling members of other religions they are guaranteed Heaven no matter what religion – that is heresy bordering on apostasy. I consider it hateful of us not to tell members of other religions (not just Islam) to be guaranteed salvation they must accept Jesus Christ. What I have written applies no less to Jews, Pagans, agnostics and athiests. As a Christian I am commanded to tell the truth – not lie. You are not even allowed a Bible or rosary in Saudi Arabia to name one Muslim country and this was on zenit.news (a news site connected to the Vatican) but you would rather lie and deny the mass persecution and slaughter of Christians in Muslim countries on the one hand, thus calling our Christian brothers and sisters liars, while at the same time lying to Muslims by letting them believe they will go to Heaven without accepting Jesus.

    You think bombs and war will help patch up relations? No. But that’s not your intent, I can see you couldn’t care less about making things better.

    On the contrary

  • Bwaj

    Oh and I don’t rejoice at the death of Bin Laden or any Muslim or any non-Christian. I even pray and ask that as long as they are live prayers be offered asking God to forgive them and Our Lord show them the path to salvation before they die, however, once a person dies if he / she dies without repenting and accepting Christ he / she can not be helped.

    As for the claims that an impenitent sinner can still be shown God’s mercy after death. This is a vision recorded by St. Faustina concerning Hell and the damned:
    ”Today, I was led by an Angel to the chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw: the first torture that constitutes Hell is the loss of God; the second is perpetual remorse of conscience; the third is that one’s condition will never change; the fourth is the fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it, a terrible suffering, since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God’s anger; the fifth torture is conditional darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own; the sixth torture is the constant company of Satan, the seventh torture is horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies. These are the tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings. There are special tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings, related to the manner in which it has sinned. There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me. Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no Hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like. I, Sister Faustina, by the order of God, have visited the abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence. I cannot speak about it now; but I have received a command from God to leave it in writing. The devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God. What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: that most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a Hell. When I came to, I could hardly recover from the fright. How terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God’s mercy upon them. O my Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, then offend You by the least sin.’ – ‘Divine Mercy In My Soul’:741

  • Bwaj

    I am not full of hatred but I don’t agree with people misrepresenting the facts when it comes to those of other religions persecuting us because of what their religion teaches.

  • Bwaj

    St. Augustine on Hell:
    ‘Today, I was led by an Angel to the chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw: the first torture that constitutes Hell is the loss of God; the second is perpetual remorse of conscience; the third is that one’s condition will never change; the fourth is the fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it, a terrible suffering, since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God’s anger; the fifth torture is conditional darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own; the sixth torture is the constant company of Satan, the seventh torture is horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies. These are the tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings. There are special tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings, related to the manner in which it has sinned. There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me. Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no Hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like. I, Sister Faustina, by the order of God, have visited the abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence. I cannot speak about it now; but I have received a command from God to leave it in writing. The devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God. What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: that most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a Hell. When I came to, I could hardly recover from the fright. How terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God’s mercy upon them. O my Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, then offend You by the least sin.’ – ‘Divine Mercy In My Soul’:741

  • Bwaj

    Read St. Faustina’s vision of Hell (see below) – Hell exists and people do go there after death.

    As St. Augustine tells us the Church prays for the sinner now (this life) not after death asking God to forgive him and lead him to repentance.

    Purgatory is for those believers who believe and have repented but still need some purification. Hell is for the damned who are unbelievers or have shown no sign of repentance. We can pray for those in Purgatory, however, just as those in Heaven should not be prayed for as they do not need our prayers so those in Hell cannot be prayed for because it will be of no avail to them. This is Church teaching.

  • Bwaj

    I am pleased you accept God and Jesus – perhaps you can explain why you use the word ‘accept’ instead of saying you ‘believe in God’?

  • Beckyhamilton_08

    Thanks Bobert432. That’s what I was thinking, but I wasn’t able to get it into words. I can’t honestly say that I am not praying for forgiveness on Bin Laden. However, I look at the whole situation. I don’t know what happened in the room when the standoff occurred. I like to think that it was a situation for the Armed Forces that they were going in there to capture him to bring him to justice. Had the United States done what they did with Sadam Hussein, I think that would have been more appropriate. He wouldn’t have been killed at the hands of the United States. As I recalled, Sadam was executed by his own government. Thus, retaliation would have been less likely on the US.

    Getting back to what I want to believe happened. I know I’m being a bit naive here, so forgive me for this. I would like to think that the US government was on there way to capturing bin Laden, and were caught in the midst of a shooting war. It was kill or be killed mode. If this was truly the scenario, then I think it appropriate. Had the armed forces gone in solely to kill bin Laden, I do not support that event.

    Forgive me for saying, but I don’t pray for for bin Laden’s forgiveness even after death. I think that is the Lord’s duty and decision. I don’t forgive him for what he has done, and I know it may be wrong, but I do judge him for his wrong doing in life. But that is for me to ask the Lord for forgiveness myself. However, the purpose of this discussion was for me to announce that I do not praise the fact that a man is dead at the hands of the United States. That is the sole purpose of the article as clearly provided in the headline. I truly believe Satan was in bin Laden here. He chose the direction in life. However, it’s not a clear choice in the matter as culture plays such a crucial roll. When someone is raised to kill, they will kill. Children are exploited into that culture every day over there and we aren’t in any position to judge that. We can just let them know that there are alternative decisions on how to live life. Influence is a key factor here. I try not to judge those who don’t know better. That is the reason we are free!

  • DBMcGinnity

    Belief means to have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/believe

    I have already addressed this concept elsewhere
    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epistemology/

    Jesus said “The kingdom of heaven is within you.” I’ve never read it in the New Testament. But I have read it the Nag Hammadi scriptures or Gnostic gospels? And that statement contradicts the concept of heaven being a place you go when you die? I do not accept anything written after the biblical contamination of Constantine which was a fraud, and an insult to God. I accept that God is within me and all living things. To me, God is in all nature, all education and in all people. It is my view that, there is more God in a baby taking it’s first steps than in all the Mass’s, Rosaries, Sermons and religious processions and rituals that have ever taken place since the world began. Golden Vestments and Gregorian chanting are wonderful and are most theatrical, which I dearly love, but they have nothing to do with God or Jesus Christ

    I can feel the goodness of God in people of all creeds and none, and for Catholics to exclude God from people, unless they have undergone several banal rituals, like the sacraments is bizarre. Imagine the wicked and heinous doctrine that a beautiful newly born baby is in a state of original sin, and must have water poured over it’s head to take away the sin. I witnessed similar pagan practices carried out in Nigeria and Madagascar.

    But if I claim to believe in God, then I am obliged to justify my assertion in cognitive terms so as to show conviction to others the veracity and trustworthiness of my belief, and that is impossible, because there is no evidence to prove that “The Biblical God” exists outside one’s subjective perception. I hope this answers your question satisfactorily.

  • Anonymous

    Hmmm… and let me ask, what would be your reaction to someone of a different religion telling you that you are on their land and you must move – because their God has said so.

    The state of Israel was set up by an annexation of land, by a minority group – the Jews. It would be like the minority of Muslims in this country asking to take some of the land to start their own country – obviously unacceptable.

    God does not see the removal of people from their homes, after living on the land there for centuries as just.

    The lawgiver Moses commanded the Hebrews that they should not oppress the strangers or non-Jews in their lands, Exodus 12:49, 22:21, 23:9, Leviticus 19:33-34, 25:35, Deuteronomy 10:18-19, 23:7, 24:17, 27:19.

    When King Ahab and Queen Jezebel unjustly expropriated the vineyard of Naboth, the prophet Elijah publicly denounced the kind for this unjust action, 1st Kings 21:17-24

    But nowadays, when the Israeli government expropriates the lands and properties of Palestinians without compensation, we look the other way and say nothing about it.

    How do you think God feels about the millions of Arabs (of all faiths) that live in refugee camps because they have been removed from where they were living? Fair retribution for being born in the wrong place at the wrong time?

    Also simply because Christians are forbidden to hate does not mean that they do not hate. I would think that is plainly obvious.

  • Ratbag

    Well said. Well done.

    Whilst churches are being shut down in the West, churches are being restored and built in Russia. It’s not a perfect country – far from it – it has much to do.

    But it’s a start.

  • Dcruz

    Bin Laden did his duty and was a staunch muslims and pracatised his religion to the best of his ability and a special place is reserved for him by his creator.More Bin Ladens are left behind to carry out his mission.

  • Bwaj

    If God does not intervene what do you call His sending Jesus to suffer and die so our sins can be forgiven in His Name?

  • Bwaj

    Wrong: faith is believing in what you can not see. The Bible can not err. Philosophy comes from Satan – esp. those who claim they know any truth which denies the Scriptures. Since the beginning of time we have been involved in a bloody war – the war for the soul – where men must choose the true God to be saved, however, Satan seeks to deceive mankind and lead all humanity to hellfire.

  • Bwaj

    There is only one Church founded by God – the Church you call the Roman Church. Henry VIII died believing himself a Catholic i.e. agreeing with the teachings of the Roman Church as you call her. He martyred Catholics because they would not be part of his self-deception that he ruled the Church which he didn’t, however, he executed Protestants as heretics and felons, which they were, because they denied ‘THE SIX ARTICLES’ (AD1539) which upheld TRANSUBSTANTIATION, PRIVATE MASSES, PERPETUAL VOWS OF CHASTITY and AURICULAR CONFESSION.

  • Bwaj

    Sorry Paul but the Qur’an does not come from God. No Catholic has the right to say or believe this on pain of damnation, including a Pope, Jesus Christ Who is God incarnate told His followers the Jews would be scattered among the nations until the time of the Gentiles is over in ‘the Last Days’ (St. Lk:21.20-24) during which time ISRAEL as a nation (Rmns:11) would be received into the true Faith (the Catholic Faith).

    The God of Islam is not the true God Who Jews and Christians no matter what rubbish you are told. Sur’ah (Chapter) 2.62 of the Qur’an was created to deceive those like you who do not
    believe in the Gospel:

    ‘Indeed, those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Christians and the Sabians; whoever truly believes in God and the Last Day and does works that benefit humanity, their reward is with their Lord. For them shall be no fear from without, nor shall grief touch them from within.’

    No Pope or bishop has permission from God to mislead the faithful as in ‘LUMEN GENTIUM’: ‘The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.’

    Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammad in the Qur’an (sometimes spelt Koran).

  • Bwaj

    Islam is incompatible with the True Faith (Catholic Christianity) so Muslims do not worship the true God no matter what is erroneously claimed by Vatican II.

    Acts:4.10-12: ‘Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the Name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, Whom God raised from the dead, even by Him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other Name under Heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.’

    1 Cor:12.3: ‘Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith “Anathema to Jesus.” And no man can say “the Lord Jesus”, but by the Holy Ghost.’ – This means anyone who denies Jesus is ‘”Lord”‘ no matter what Vatican II says does not have the Holy Spirit.

    2 Thess:1.8-9: ‘In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.’

    1 St. Jn:2.22-23: ‘Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is Antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.’ – This means anyone who denies Jesus is the ‘”Christ”‘, no matter what Vatican II says, are not worshippers of the true God but antiChrists and liars who worship Satan because no-one can worship God the Son without God the Father and no-one can worship God the Father without God the Son.

    1 St. Jn:4.2-3: ‘By this is the spirit of God known. Every spirit which confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God: And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world.’ – This shows, contrary to what is claimed by Vatican II, that anyone who denies Jesus is God Who became man so is God the Word incarnate (St. Jn:1.1,14) is from Satan and the AntiChrist.

    2 St. Jn:7: ‘For many seducers are gone out into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh: this is a seducer and an antichrist.’ – This shows those who deny Jesus is the Messiah are antiChrists who do not worship the true God but worship Satan.

    Muslims deny THE HOLY TRINITY, even though the Scriptures confirm to us the doctrine of THE HOLY TRINITY, because Jesus tells us although there is ONE GOD (St. Mk:12.29), He is THREE DIVINE PERSONS (St. Mtt:28.19), because the Qur’an denies THE HOLY TRINITY:

    Sur’ah (Chapter) 4.169-171 of the Qur’an: ‘Believe in God and his apostles and say not Three. …. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity”: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son.’

    Sur’ah (Chapter) 5.72-73,75: ‘They do blaspheme who say: “God is Christ the son of Mary.” They do blaspheme who say: God is one of Three in a Trinity: for there is no God except one God Allah. If they do not desist from their word of blasphemy, verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. Christ the son of Mary was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him.”’

  • Bwaj

    Muslims deny JESUS, THE SON OF MARY, is GOD, even though the Scriptures tell us JESUS, THE SON OF MARY (St. Mk:6.3) HIS MOTHER (St. Jn:19.25) is GOD (Is:7.14 Is:9.6 St. Mtt:1.123 St. Jn:1.1.14 St:Jn:20.28), because the Qur’an denies JESUS, THE SON OF MARY, HIS MOTHER is GOD:

    Sur’ah (Chapter) 5.17: ‘In blasphemy indeed are those that say that God is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every – one that is on the earth?’

    Sur’ah (Chapter) 5.72: ‘They do blaspheme who say: “God is Christ the son of Mary.”’

  • Bwaj

    Muslims deny JESUS, THE SON OF MARY, is THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD, even though we are told in the Scriptures (Gal:1.11-12 2 St. Tim:3.16), JESUS, THE SON OF MARY, is THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD by GOD THE FATHER (Heb:1.5-8 Heb:5.5 St. Mtt:3.17 St. Mtt:17.5 St. Mk:1.11 St. Mk:9.6), by JESUS Himself (St. Jn:3.16 St. Jn:3.18), by St. Peter who was the first Pope (St. Mtt:16.16), by St. Paul (Rmns:1.4,9 Rmns:5.10 Rmns:8.3 1 Cor:1.9 2 Cor:1.19 Gal:2.20 Gal:4.4,6 Eph:4.13 Heb:1.5-8 Heb:4.14 Heb:5.5,8 Heb:6.6 Heb:7.3 Heb:10.29), St. Matthew (St. Mtt:3.17 St. Mtt:17.5), St. Mark (St. Mk:1.1 St. Mk:3.12), St. Luke (St. Lk:1.31,35), St. John the Evangelist (1 St. Jn:3.8 1 St. Jn:4.9 1 St. Jn:5.20 2 St. Jn:1.3 St. Jn:1.14,18), St. Gabriel the Archangel (St. Lk:1.31,35), the other Disciples and Angels (Rev:2.18) because the Qur’an denies JESUS, THE SON OF MARY, is THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD:

    Sur’ah (Chapter) 9.30: ‘The Jews call ‘Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!’

    Sur’ah (Chapter) 10.68-70: ‘They say: “God hath begotten a son!” Those who invent a lie against God will never prosper.’

    Sur’ah (Chapter) 18.4-5: ‘Further, that He may warn those (also) who say, “God hath begotten a son”: No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. It is a grievous thing that issues from their mouths as a saying what they say is nothing but falsehood!’

    Sur’ah (Chapter) 19.88-92: ‘They say: “(God) Most Gracious has begotten a son!” Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, That they should invoke a son for (God) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of (God) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.”’

    Sur’ah (Chapter) 25.2-3: ‘He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: no son has He begotten, nor has He a partner in His dominion: it is He who created all things, and ordered them in due proportions. Yet have they taken, besides him, gods that can create nothing but are themselves created; that have no control of hurt or good to themselves; nor can they control death nor life nor resurrection.’

    Sur’ah (Chapter) 112.1-4: ‘Proclaim, ‘He is the One and only GOD. The Absolute GOD. Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten. None equals Him.”

  • Bwaj

    Muslims deny JESUS is ‘LORD’, even though the Scriptures tell us JESUS is ‘”LORD”‘ (Phil:2.11 St. Jn:20.28)

    Muslims say Jesus cannot be worshipped:

    Muslims say JESUS was not CRUCIFIED, even though the Scriptures tell us JESUS SUFFERED and DIED (St. Lk:24.46 St. Jn:12.32-33) on THE CROSS (St. Jn:19.25) so our sins can be forgiven in His Name (St. Lk:24.47 St. Jn:20.23) then ROSE FROM THE DEAD (St. Lk:24.46) because the Qur’an says Jesus was not crucified:

    Sur’ah (Chapter) 4.157: ‘That they said, “We slew the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the messenger of God”-yet they did not slay him neither crucified him, only a likeness of that which was shown to them.”’

  • Bwaj

    Muslims deny Christians are the children of God so cannot pray the ‘”OUR FATHER”‘ taught by JESUS:

    Sur’ah (Chapter) 5.17-18: ‘ …….. (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created.”‘

  • Bwaj

    So you see Paul I can not accept the claim Muslims worship the same God we do because they claim what we believe about Jesus are lies we invented. In fact they claim their God and Isa (Jesus) say we invented it.

  • Gerard

    God answered my prayers and rid us of Osama Bin Laden whom satan owned .I disagree with Fr Lombardi, evil men belong in hell not on earth killing thousands of work-people ,killing the innocents
    It is ridiculous to think God would pity him ,it would be like pitying the devils,of whom I WAS TOLD NOT TO PITY…..Prophet

  • Anonymous

    ‘Sorry Paul but the Qur’an does not come from God.’

    Yes, obviously, or else I would be a Muslim and not a Catholic. I don’t believe in another being but the Christian God. Where did I give the impression otherwise?

    Simply because I say ‘the Koran says x’ is to support my argument – it is not to suggest it is the word of God – usually it is to ilustrate your false assumptions about what the majority of Muslims believe.

  • DBMcGinnity

    You have put a lot of time and energy into your blog, and that is a good thing and is the sign of a true believer. The Catholic Church is fortunate to have your level of dedication and commitment. Your views are as good as those of anybody else, and I respect them. I have studies the Koran under the supervision of a erudite Muslim academic, and I feel that you have wholly mistaken it’s concept and context of this Holy Book. I have kissed the Koran and the Torah and Talmud. In my experience Muslims and Jews are kind and charitable people. In my view God loves everyone equally regardless of their spiritual leanings. No faith or religion is any better or effective than having a nice cup of coffee or flying a kite.

  • Bwaj

    Oh and before you quote Papal infallibility at me – nowhere has any Pope or Church Council decreed ‘LUMEN GENTIUM’ claimed about Islam as being necessary to be believed by all the faithful to be saved. Papal infallibility in areas of ‘faith and morals’ is expressed ‘ex cathedra’ warning believers rejection of a specific teaching leads to damnation. This has never been applied to the above ‘LUMEN GENTIUM’ quote.

  • Cvruk

    It’s difficult not to be glad that Osama Bin Laden is dead but I do agree with the Vatican. And remember ‘its better the devil you know than the one you don’t know.’ To all who have passed: may you rest in peace.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    As a person with a deep moral core, I am severely disheartened by the reaction people have given this event. It almost makes me ashamed to claim any relationship to these fellow Americans.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    How can you liken Bin Laden to Satan when we are all created in God’s image? Further, it is God’s right – and His alone – to exact justice or forgiveness on any human being.

    Bin Laden’s work will carry on . His death will have no real impact on the effects of militant Muslims other than to encourage retaliation. And was it right to kill an unarmed man in his home and then bury him at sea against Muslim tradition? In my mind, this likens us all a little to Satan.

    Our God is not a vengeful god; nor should we be vengeful, but joyfully and proudly reflect God’s love in all we do. I, for one, will not be sighing in relief because this action only instigates and propegates further violence.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    We Americans are too cocky and egomaniacal to see that what KHAIDA is saying is the truth. Sometimes I am so ashamed at my fellow Americans that I wish I could denounce them all. It has been many decades since we have had a president to be proud of….although we are all trained with unjustified pride in our country and president regardless of what they do or stand for. Thank you, KHAIDA, for stating some truth.

  • Anonymous

    Infallibility or not, do you not feel if you are disagreeing with every papal document I quote you, that you could be making some mistakes. I mean – do you simply want the Vatican to stay silent if it always gets it wrong – it becomes pointless if you deny what it is saying too relentlessly.

    You really are missing the point on the majority of what I am saying. I am not claiming that Muslims hold the truth. I am not, and have never, claimed that Muslims believe in the God – that is not my argument.

    My argument is that you are holding another religion to a false standard – that it must comply with the beliefs of Christians. Do Atheists believe Jesus is the Son of God? Do Jews? Do Skihs?

    Obviously they don’t, but it is not because those people are evil, or lying, it is because they believe something different. All faiths are equally arrogant in supposing knowing the truth, because we base of beliefs on ancient religious texts, and unconformable events.

    You on the other hand talk about anything that does not conform to the scriptures as just plain wrong, and equally morally wrong not to accept their exact meaning.

    Who exactly is closer to the truth?:-

    The atheist who does not believe in God
    or
    The Muslim who believes in a God, and believes Jesus was a great moral teacher and prophet

    Yet you reserve your dislike for the Muslim; why?

  • Anonymous

    Infallibility or not, do you not feel if you are disagreeing with every papal document I quote you, that you could be making some mistakes. I mean – do you simply want the Vatican to stay silent if it always gets it wrong – it becomes pointless if you deny what it is saying too relentlessly.

    You really are missing the point on the majority of what I am saying. I am not claiming that Muslims hold the truth. I am not, and have never, claimed that Muslims believe in the God – that is not my argument.

    My argument is that you are holding another religion to a false standard – that it must comply with the beliefs of Christians. Do Atheists believe Jesus is the Son of God? Do Jews? Do Skihs?

    Obviously they don’t, but it is not because those people are evil, or lying, it is because they believe something different. All faiths are equally arrogant in supposing knowing the truth, because we base of beliefs on ancient religious texts, and unconformable events.

    You on the other hand talk about anything that does not conform to the scriptures as just plain wrong, and equally morally wrong not to accept their exact meaning.

    Who exactly is closer to the truth?:-

    The atheist who does not believe in God
    or
    The Muslim who believes in a God, and believes Jesus was a great moral teacher and prophet

    Yet you reserve your dislike for the Muslim; why?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    Good point, Bwaj. It was, in essence, the Christian Crusades that started this whole mess. I wonder where we would be today if the Crusades hadn’t happened? Maybe – just maybe – we wouldn’t be the bad guys. Maybe – just maybe – we could all be friends. I know it’s a shot in the dark, but there are so many shameful things in our past and present that could all have been resolved by showing the love of Christ.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    Simply put and well said.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    But he wasn’t alone. I feel no sense of relief or safety now that he is dead. In fact, I feel more threatened. I think it gives the man too much significance to believe that he, alone, was the voice of all the evil commited under his militant Muslim beliefs. There are and will be others.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    You make it sound like the Catholic Church only states these points of view out of a lack of desire to instigate any bad feelings with the Muslim (or other) communities/people/beliefs. But you are forgetting the true purpose and beliefs of Catholics. Even Pope John Paul II forgave his assassin. This is a basic Christian characteristic….or SHOULD be, anyway.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    Yes, but He knew the hearts of both sinners. We can only see what’s on the outside.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    I heard on many news reports that Osama was unarmed – that his wife stepped in front of him to protect him and took a bullet. We may never know the facts, but I would like to believe as you do regarding the situation that caused his death. From what I have heard, though, his death was a murder – revenge, even.

    Someone else stated that the US was acting in the form of what is good and right and that Osama represented evil. The US vs Bin Laden is not an instance of good vs evil. America cannot represent ‘good’ because the only good and right things come from the Lord. I don’t see America as a whole representing that in any way in this action or in any action of late – especially if this action was, indeed, one of revenge.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    Thank you, yes! I especially liked your statement about evangelizing the Middle East. We have spent more time (as Christians and as westerners) sticking our fingers in their business. Look at the Crusades, for instance. Maybe if we had befriended them and spoke to them of God’s love instead of fighting them and reminding them of how we feel about their religion, we would not be in this situation at all. They certainly would not be viewing us as infidels and true evil.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    These are wonderful words, but Christ brought a new perspective – one of love, kindness, and, above all, forgiveness. He was “the Light.” Perhaps his words should be reviewed and followed as they were by his disciples (who did not retaliate with violence to the Romans and Jewish leaders following the crucifixion of their most beloved Jesus). Why is it so easy for “Christians” to forget what Christ taught?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    Well said, ACS.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UTSI4K6YCTFPBVA5CMQICBOZFI re

    Is that why bin Laden was unarmed and shot anyway? Is that why his wife stood before him to protect him from the bullets and took one herself? I would call that murder.

    U.S national security officials have said there was never any intention to capture Bin Laden alive.Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383803/Osama-Bin-Laden-left-room-shot-5-YEARS-claims-wife.html

    If you want to point fingers, you should point them at the early Christians who took on the Crusades and to modern Westerners who find it a legitimate cause to split up Muslim lands and interfere in Middle Eastern business, only propegating the development of individuals like bin Laden.

  • mollysdad

    Hitler was unarmed when Stauffenberg tried to kill him. Likewise, bin Laden was in effective command authority over an armed organisation and was therefore a legitimate military target. As for the Crusaders, so what? They were waging a lawful defensive war against an aggressor who was fighting to establish and impose a false religion.

  • Bwaj

    No it was not. It was the Islamic invasion of Christian territory.

  • Bwaj

    St. Augustine Bishop of Hippo in ‘CITY OF GOD’:21.24 explaining St. Mtt:12.32 tells us we can only pray for sinners while they are alive, but if they die impenitent the Church can not pray for them, because only those sinners who have repented during life but are now in Purgatory can be prayed for:

    ‘ …… this also is the reason why, though she (the Church) prays even for the wicked so long as they live, she yet does not even in this world pray for the unbelieving and godless who are dead. For some of the dead, indeed, the prayer of the Church or of pious individuals is heard; but it is for those who, having been regenerated in Christ, did not spend their life so wickedly that they can be judged unworthy of such compassion, nor so well that they can be considered to have no need of it. Also, after the resurrection, there will be some of the dead to whom, after they have endured the pains proper to the spirits of the dead, mercy shall be accorded, and acquittal from the punishment of the eternal fire. For were there not some whose sins, though not remitted in this life, shall be remitted in that which is to come, it could not be truly said, “They shall not be forgiven, neither in this world, neither in that which is to come.”‘

  • Bwaj

    You know only the lies of the revisionists of the past fifty years. The Crusades were defensive warfare to protect Christians in Christian territory from forced islamization by Muslim invaders who were waging their ji’hads (offensive war to spread Islam by the sword).