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Institute of Christ the King to take over landmark Wirral church

By on Friday, 27 May 2011

An ordination Mass for the Institute of Christ the King

An ordination Mass for the Institute of Christ the King

A traditionalist order has agreed to take over a landmark church in the Wirral that was closed for worship three years ago.

The Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest (ICKSP) will establish its first house in England and Wales in Church of Ss Peter and Paul, New Brighton, later this year.

Bishop Mark Davies of Shrewsbury and the institute’s general prior, Mgr Gilles Wach, agreed to establish the foundation in the church, which was closed amid protests three years ago.

Under the auspices of the traditionalist institute, Ss Peter and St Paul’s will become a centre for the Extraordinary Form Mass. Mgr Wach’s institute, headquartered in Gricigliano, near Florence, was given pontifical approval as a Society of Apostolic Life in 2008 and celebrates the sacraments according to the older form of the Roman Rite.

They currently have no houses in England and Wales, but send over priests from Belgium to say Sunday Mass in four English dioceses.

Bishop Davies was approached by the institute last year and met Mgr Wach after Easter to negotiate establishing the foundation. He also consulted with his fellow bishops in the North of England, the Patrimony Committee of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales, and English Heritage about the Church’s future.

He re-opened the Dome of Home, as the Wirral Church is known, earlier this year after his predecessor closed it in 2008 as being too large and too costly to maintain.

After a concerted campaign by parishioners, the Vatican ruled in 2009 that the then Bishop Brian Noble had failed to follow the correct canonical procedure when closing the church. It later withdrew the ruling when it was assured that the parish’s move to a nearby Anglican parish was temporary.

A diocesan spokesman said: “The members of the institute will work in close collaboration with Fr Philip Moor, the parish priest of the Parish of the Holy Apostles and Martyrs, since it is the wish of Bishop Davies that this shrine church will express the harmony between the two usages of the one Roman Rite.

“As the Holy Father, Pope Benedict, reminded us in his 2007 Moto Proprio, Summorum Pontificum, ‘there is no contradiction between the two editions of the Roman Missal’, it is the sincere hope of the bishop that this establishment will foster reconciliation at the heart of the Church: one of the express aims of the 2007 papal document.

“Finally, the foundation will ensure that the patrimony of the church building so dear to Catholics and other members of the local community is secured and continues to bear witness to the faith and mission of the Church.”

  • Savonarola

    Excellent idea. All talk of the two rites of mass enriching each other is such obvious hogwash. The traditionalists don’t want anything to do with the Novus Ordo. Why should they when they regard it as inferior and not truly Catholic? If they can set up enclaves of their own in splendid decaying churches, they can get on with doing their own thing sealed away in their little fortress and the rest of us, the great majority, can get on with being the Church today.

  • true trad

    What top of the range lace…. I need some new curtain material ….Can you tell me where I can buy their catalogue..?
    By the way did  Jesus or any of the apostles or priests of the first 4 centuries wear such exquisite lace?  I am a traditionalist.

  • Et Expecto

    It is sad that there are people in the Church like Savonarola who are both lacking in Christian charity and apparently ignorant of their Catholic heritage.  May I suggest that when the church of St Peter and St Paul reopens, Savonarola pays a visit there and prays in front of the Blessed Sacrament.  I am sure heor she will find it a spiritually uplifting experience.

  • ap257

    WOW

  • crouchback

    Being the Church for today……

    Yes that’s about it, the Traditionalists are the church of tomorrow. The diocese in the north of England are locked in a death spiral, and know way out. No vocations, money failing to come in and all the victorian churches starting to fall apart…..

    What’s not to like from the Traditionalist point of view, “The Church for today” has had it’s chance …..and failed abysmally.  No use in telling you to get lost, you’re too arrogant even to doing that.

    Hang around and make sure that you’ve properly wrecked the place before you retire…why don’t you.

  • maryp

    Excellent news. They have inherited a similar situation in Chicago.

    http://www.institute-christ-king.org/chicago/

    I attend Mass in both the new and traditional forms in the US, but it is in the traditional parishes where the church is packed (with young people too) and worship is both vibrant and reverent. It is indeed the future of our church. 

  • Ssas

    “A diocesan spokesman said: “The members of the institute will work in
    close collaboration with Fr Philip Moor, the parish priest of the Parish
    of the Holy Apostles and Martyrs, since it is the wish of Bishop Davies
    that this shrine church will express the harmony between the two usages
    of the one Roman Rite””

    Has the Institute of Christ the King agreed to hold the Novus Ordo in this church as the price for the Bishop’s agreement? I can’t work out what the above weasel words mean!

  • Savonarola

    It is sad that there are people in the Church like ‘Et exspecto’ and ‘Crouchback’ who accuse others of being ignorant of their Catholic heritage etc. I am very happy that traditionalists are able to worship in their own way and have places in which to do it. In its way I’m sure the classic Tridentine Rite is very beautiful and has a lot of appeal in some places. It is a fantasy, though, to think that nostalgic regression can have much to contribute to the future of our faith. Most Catholics, it seems to me, have moved on by now and are interested not just in having spiritually uplifting experiences in churches, but in how they can know God and live their faith in the world as it is. The more remote it is, the more imbued with defunct archaic attitudes, the less worship will have to offer the Church of today – the only one we have.

  • Nick

    > “All talk of the two rites of mass enriching each other
    is such obvious hogwash.”

    Jesus, you think the idea of the Holy See is “hogwash”?

    > “The traditionalists don’t want anything to do
    with the Novus Ordo.”

    “The” traditionalists? As if they are all one uniform body? You are speaking of hundreds of thousands of people, perhaps millions, all over the world, as if they are one uniform body?

    > “Why should they when they regard it as inferior and
    not truly Catholic?”

    Don’t tarn so many people with the loony views of the SSPX.

    > “[...] decaying, [...], sealed, [...]little fortress”

    Jesus brother, be more respectful!

    This attitude will help nobody.

    By the way, I have never been to a Tridentine Mass. But I think it is an important part of the Church, and I regret its persecution.

  • Kennyinliverpool

    I was baptised in that church and live in Liverpool. I have worked for the church as well… and have to say that Catholicism is declining very rapidly in Liverpool. This church is not really in Liverpool but ‘over the water’ …
    anyway it seems that men are not participating in church life … which might explain the shortage of men going into the priesthood… and the liturgy is terrible – which is probably the most important aspect of church life? 
    It will be interesting to see if this church is popular with the community

  • concerned wallasey

      Who will fund the church?   Will there be any contribution from the diocese or local Parishes?
     Will it be owned by  the Institute?  Will they take over the new ‘Day Chapel’? and the Presbytery? 
        LOTS OF QUESTIONS TO ASK AND HAVE ANSWERED 

  • Savonarola

    You could try having a look at the photo illustrating the article and then ask yourself whether you can really take all this blah seriously. The best message here is the one from ‘true trad.’

  • Barrytaylor

    Thank God for this wonderfull news !

  • Jamesmaherne

    what a pity Savonarola takes the view I have just read.basic error the church has moved on, Christ is
    changeless,the true Church is changeless!Pope Benedict,s Moto Proprio of three years ago and the
    latest Instruction need to be prayed about and obeyed,These documents are not aimed at the poor
    ” traditionalists” I hate labels, but are given as Law to the whole Church now!We are either in union with His Holiness or we are not. The cafe is not just closed it is under new management!
    Some how I do not think the hundreds of young men packing the orthodox seminaries would take kindly
    to being told they are in nostalgic regression or have defunct archaic attitues! if anyone vis sufferinf from these ideas its those who are attached to a cobweb of ideas never intended by the Second Vatican Council
    a young priest said the Traditional Mass this morning,I do not think He is a spiritual dinosaur!

  • Mrpants

    The surprising thing is that when I talk to people from Liverpool I don’t hear the same message of gloom that appears in the Catholic press. God forgive me if I am being uncharitable but Just maybe if priests were willing to show a bit more resolve and Bishops a bit more backbone churches would not be closing.

  • Mrpants

    The surprising thing is that when I talk to people from Liverpool I don’t hear the same message of gloom that appears in the Catholic press. God forgive me if I am being uncharitable but Just maybe if priests were willing to show a bit more resolve and Bishops a bit more backbone churches would not be closing.

  • Jamesmaherne

    true trad and everybody is welcome to come to St Mary Magdalen.s,Leyland Rd Penwortham Preston on Sunday June 5th ,one of the first Sung Traditional Latin Masses by newly Ordained young Fr Matthew
    McCarthy( from Wigan)member of the new Order of the Fraternity of St Peter,Gregorian chant,lots of lace!
    incense,flowers,colour,beauty,glory,reverence,prayer,candles,a Mass, closes thing to Heaven,oh I can
    hardly wait!sorry I almost got carried away,You are all welcome to refreshments too,Collection!
    Well we really are Roman Catholic afterall.We have the approval of Him in the big house in Liverpool
    and our beloved parish priest!
    So see you all there on the 5th! A day not to be missed,Mass will start 8.15 am!
    Jesus deserves the best,He is afterall a V.I.P If you are bored sometime get a copy of How Christ Said The First Mass published by Tan,a doorstopper and a real eye opener! it was very far from a simple meal!
    signing off now me soapbox just fell apart!

  • AgingPapist

     Savonarola,  The big shock to traditionalists, for which they are not prepared, is that when Papa Ratzinger passes from the scene, his successor will probably close the book on both the EF AND the OF. By replacing them with the Missal of Pope ________”?

    I don’t see the two forms existing side by side as the solution to ending the liturgical civil wars. Both will have to go, or Catholics will gradually gravitate towards the new Anglican Ordinariate liturgy (which will undoubtedly have the best English language Mass in the Catholic Church) , or they will move to the Anglican, Byzantine or other eastern liturgies as more spiritually accommodating.

    Latin is not the lingua franca of the  universe and that includes the Catholic Church. English  has replaced it.  Retain the Latin musical heritage, yes by all means, but, otherwise, the Latin Mass  should be permitted to die. 

    The Council fathers should have stomped it out once and for all at Vatican II.  We have and continue to pay a high price for the fact they failed to do it.  Vatican II had an opportunity to embrace reality and prepare the liturgy for the 21st century, but the old boys in purple and scarlet lacked the foresight and imagination to see the need for it. They blew their chance.

  • Stephen Regan

    That’s great news, and the answer to may a prayer.

  • Ratbag

    This is terrific news! Deo Gratias! Keep up the sterling work, Bishop Mark – a bishop and a half!

  • Chjklnps

    Churches close when people don’t use them, and unless parents pass on their faith to their children, churches will continue to close. The cause is the secularisation of faith schools, which began in the sixties, and which produced a generation of parents who were quite content to leave the task, of bringing their own children up in the faith, to the same institutions which failed to do reinforce their own faith as they were growing up. Secular consumerism is evil nonsense, and unless we teach that in schools, children will be indoctrinated into atheism. If we want our children to serve God, they must despise money. What school dares to teach that gospel message today?

  • Harper

    I am praying that ICCSP take over the beautiful former Sacred Heart Church in Limerick, sold a few years ago by the Jesuits with indecent haste to a property developer who aimed to turn it into a Roman Baths-themed health club. The Jesuits “replaced” this church with a multifaith centre. The developer has since died tragically, his company has folded and the Church is on the market again. Let us hope and pray that the ICCSP will flourish where the Society of Jesus once flourished, and that the liturgy so beloved of Ignatius Loyola and his company and of the people of Limerick in penal times will be heard again in that ancient city.

  • Savonarola

    What a pity Jamesmaherne takes the view I have just read. Basic error – God alone is changeless, the Church has always moved on, it has had to otherwise it would have died, seeing that change is the law of life.
    As a Catholic I am in union with the Pope and respect the authority of ‘Summorum Pontificum’ as of all his statements. This does not detract from the fact that the whole Church, including the Pope, is under the authority of and should obey a general ecumenical council such as Vatican II, which called for the reform and renewal of the liturgy, not to create something new but to bring out its true nature where this had been obscured or distorted in the course of time. How reform can be brought about by reinstating older forms of worship, aspects of which the Council found unsatisfactory, I do not know.
    By the way, if you want to see nostalgic regression and defunct archaic attitudes at work have a good look at the photograph illustrating the CH’s article. I do not want to call anyone a spiritual dinosaur, but if the cap (biretta or sky-high mitre) fits …

  • Savonarola

    What a pity Jamesmaherne takes the view I have just read. Basic error – God alone is changeless, the Church has always moved on, it has had to otherwise it would have died, seeing that change is the law of life.
    As a Catholic I am in union with the Pope and respect the authority of ‘Summorum Pontificum’ as of all his statements. This does not detract from the fact that the whole Church, including the Pope, is under the authority of and should obey a general ecumenical council such as Vatican II, which called for the reform and renewal of the liturgy, not to create something new but to bring out its true nature where this had been obscured or distorted in the course of time. How reform can be brought about by reinstating older forms of worship, aspects of which the Council found unsatisfactory, I do not know.
    By the way, if you want to see nostalgic regression and defunct archaic attitudes at work have a good look at the photograph illustrating the CH’s article. I do not want to call anyone a spiritual dinosaur, but if the cap (biretta or sky-high mitre) fits …

  • catholicus simplex

    What a disappointment heaven will be after the glories of the Tridentine Mass, lace, incense and the rest of it – no religion there at all, only God.

  • Nat_ons

    My heart-felt prayer rises even as I write; please God, that reparation may be made soon. It would be a mirale to have the ICCSP or some other usus antiquior society here in Belfast too - there are probably empty or emptying church buildings here. For while I love the sanctity of the Mass in any language, High or Low, the common use (misuse/ abuse) that passes for a ‘Roman’ liturgy in the North of Ireland is all too often often nothing short of sacrilege (and that is not hyperbole). It seems highly unlikely, however, as the local Ordinary seems extraordinarly mean with any provision of the Extraordinary Rite(s) – let alone in seeking to restore the Ordinary Rite.

    Still, prayers are answered affirmatively as well as in the negative, and miracles do happen in the most unpromising circumstances .. for it is still my hope (against hope) that the genuine inner beauty of the latest revision Paul VI’s revision (of the 1967 revision of the 1965 revision) can at last truly re-emerge and even flourish in all its Latin/Greek and Hebrew glory as well as in the English, Irish, Polish, Chinese etc: ‘Mea culpa! Mea culpa! Mea maxima culpa!’ et al (in all tongues); along with the older: ‘Introibo ad altare Dei’ even as a guideline!

    God bless, Nat.

  • Ratbag

    This would not go ahead if the Diocese and the Institute hadn’t explored those channels.

    In the long run, it will be a success. Just trust in God and His Holy Mother.

  • Anonymous

    modernist nonsense

  • Jamesmaherne

    Savonarola,wow you are in for a big suprise when you get to Heaven ( I hope you do) the place is full of flowers, buckets of the finest incense the whole place is made of crystal and beautiful different gemstones
    everybody wears a rich kind of lace or maybe its sunlit cobwebs?anyway its stunning!How do I know I
    read the Bible and also I have met an Angel, but thats another story!

    Do your soul a favour come to St Mary Magdalen,s on 5th June , tea and angel cake!

  • Nat_ons

    There can be no church of ‘today’; Christ is the same yesterday, today and for each tomorrow. That is the whole point of knitting its ancient use with a swiftly aging one - if I understand the complaint of the more sensible souls among those who label themselves ‘tradtionalist’ (as though an orthodox catholic could be anything other). You are right, of course, there are extremists in this traditionalistic understanding (‘tradition for the sake of tradition’, rather than living faith for the sake of God’s will in Christ). However, there is just as much extremism expressed among those who like to label themselves modernist, todays-people, New-Rite-supporters.

    Paul VI’s 1969 reconstruction of the 1967 revision of the 1965 revision of the 1962 revision of the 1955 remodelling of the 1903 renewal in liturgy was not and may not now be made a symbol of rebellion against, division of or interruption in the magisterial expression of authority. Far from being a total break against Pius V and the (at times obsessively pessimistic) post-Trent orthodoxy, Paul VI’s (at times waywardly optimisitc) desire remained at one with the notion of development .. if properly applied (look at a Lutheran High Mass as celebrated in 1968 to see its then ecumenical context rather than the dreadful impositions that swept all before it). Seen in the light of what Paul VI asked for, the great beauty of his New Order is that of the Cistertian purity of spirit, pared down to its root elements, when compared to the Baroque (at times Rocco) use in the preceding ancient use; this same New Order simplicity in grandeur was and is perverted merely to fit a grossly impoverished spirit of the times.

    Considering one element of its theology in prayer could be helpful for those of us used to the 1975 English language maceration of Paul VI’s vision: ‘Mea culpa!’ a central tenet of Catholic truth on the individual responsibility for personal sin was totally and unwarrantedly obliterated. And it is often this dire sacrilege – used here not as polemical hyperbole only a observable fact – which the lover of Sacred Tradition finds most hurtful, its denial by those who should know better most objectionable, and its obdurately continued abuse most perverse .. hence worthy of outright opposition.

    The church of Saint John Cantius in what had been a neglected, deteriorating, shut-worthy Chicago parish shows that a miracle can be wrought by the Holy Ghost even in our midst, when we bend our will to God’s will as expressed in the tradition of obedient discipleship communing with the mind of Peter’s successor at Rome. It has relatively little to do with whether the Mass had ‘Introibo ad altare Dei’ or ‘In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti’ at the start, less still whether it was guitar-led, plainly chanted or sung to Mozart, rather its power rests in that its pastor and people set themselves to actually fulfilling what the Church Fathers has asked to be done. Any ragga-bop-hip-hop, beats-ville or folksy I’ll-Do-It-My-Way clown Mass may well attract many souls, what it fails to do absolutely is be obedient to Vatican II, Paul VI and the whole magisterium of Christ’s one body with one Spirit even ‘today’ - however jolly it is.

    God bless, Noel.

    PS: Genuine folk-music-inspired Mass settings can be just what the Doctors of the church have always ordered. Indeed a glorious guitar-guided liturgy can far excel in beauty the drone of a half-hearted organist. What matters, if we want to be at one with the Vatican II Fathers and their predecessors, is an offering of the Mass - its actual words, its own chants, its divine sacrifice - in eternal, heavenly worship of God (not as a passing worldly means to keep those present more or less engaged, entertained or energetic!)

  • http://twitter.com/Graham1952 Graham Lake

    This is indeed good news!

  • Rmeburgess

    Unfortunately for you, James, both the present and previous popes said that heaven (hell too for that matter) is not to be thought of as a place, a physical location, which could have the sort of accoutrements you delight in. The surprise and disappointment will be yours when you discover that all there is is God.

  • Nat_ons

    Unless the next pope declares Benedict XVI, John Paul II and Paul VI to be heretics, which - to say the least – is highly unlikely (thereby making himself heretical) then ‘Sumorum Pontificum’ 2007, ‘Ecclesia Dei’ 1988 and above these ‘Sacrosanctum Concillium’ 1963 (its actual, stated requirements, not its abuse for ideological motives) must all remain valid for orthodox catholics until their purpose is achieved or the end is superceded .. even if some, in various degrees of denial on orthodoxy, still seek to ignore the pontifical teaching (as they have since the 1965 revision of the 1962 revision).

    Revoking a permission for something that has never been abrogated, with an encouragement to implement what is still valid, is unlikely .. even in the most rabidly anti-traditional, heterodox and modernist of bishops (of which there are still a staggeringly high number) .. because popes, unlike theologians and even bishops are far more constrained in action within the continuity of our living faith. The liberally minded Pius IX was pasted mercilessly by the great liberalists of the the 19th century for what they saw as his unforgivable sin: acting within the constraints of that successive Petrine Office; similarly, Paul VI was reviled bitterly by those who read his ‘Humanae Vitae’ as a betrayal not of orthodox faith but of their modernist pretentions. So, a liberal pope – if he does not intend to wander in error – will like any more conservative soul feel the constraining rule of Sacred Tradition .. and that includes accepting the orthodox expression of his predecessors (or correcting any misunderstanding on his teaching).

    Sumorum Pontificum is not open to such levels of misunderstanding, these have now been dealt with by and large forthrightly in ‘Universae Ecclesiae’. Ecclesia Dei’s application may indeed become redundant if the schism of SSPX orthodox catholics can be ended, so that this condemnations may then be rescinded and full communion restored. Sacrosanctum Concillium to a greater extent than even Pius V’s Quo Primum cannot be abrogated willy nilly even by a pope, because these are ‘the teaching of the church in communion with Rome’, they may of course be given greater clarification, or receive renewed consideration, and thus perhaps be applied in different contexts (than those advanced at the time of decree; to see this apply, look at the Council of Jerusalem’s ‘decrees’, Acts 15, and how they work in church teaching now).

    Making ‘Sacrosanctum Concillium’ mean that ‘I-Say-I-Am-Free-To-Have-Mass-My-Way; So-There’ is an autoritatively approved concept for ‘today’s church’ is not only invalid and unorthodox it is a frank heresy. Saying ‘Quo Primum’ does not apply to the Rite of Roman Liturgy as revised in 1962 is also falsehood of the gravest sort; for Sacrosanctum Concilium sought only a new expression of this same Rite not any liturgy set up in opposition to it. In the same way, ‘Sumorum Pontificum’ as a motu proprio (i.e. a personal initiative) does not irradicate the desire of the Council Fathers in 1963, it merely seeks to place it in its true context: the unrevoked Rites of Pius V duly revised in 1955 and 1960-1962 – seen in the 1965 and 1967 revisions, and generously expanded in the 1970 New Order – apply still to that usus antquior, any newer rites must compliment this, they may not contradict it even where they may replace it (as many opposed to Tradition, and even traddies themselves, seek to suggest).

    God bless, Nat.

    PS: Pius V and Trent did not suppress any ancient Rites to replace these with a New Rite. Various liturgical customs of then relatively recent introduction were suppressed; the Dominican, Mozarabic, Ambrosian etc Rites remained valid – in all the areas where these properly applied. The ultramontane Catholic Reformation and - more intensely - a collapse of the Ancient Regime with its subsquent drawing of the secular state away from Rome including its ultra-Ultramontanist reaction made the Pian Roman Rite seem ubiquitous, unassailable and unreformable (it was/ is none of these .. neither can it cease to form part of church teaching that is both orthodox and catholic .. even if no one is able to implement it in the long gone context that had the apostles, Pius V, or the Vatican II Fathers first issue their teaching).

    Lo! o’er ancient forms departingNewer rites of grace prevail;Faith for all defects supplying,Where the feeble senses fail.

  • Anonymous

    Some say the Wirral was the site of the Battle of Brunanburh. This is the Holy Spirit at work!

  • Dominic

    Oh dear. So all the pretence of being progressive and open-minded goes out with the dirty bath-water. Back to the magical mystery tour stuff. No real surprise.

  • Anonymous

     I don’t get it. What are you complaining about?

  • Clarinet

    It is clear to me that given “Savonarola’s” free and unequivocal decision to associate himself with a 15th century Italian heretic, our latter day “Savonarola” is either a former member of the “progressive” clergy, who is/are still utterly wedded to the ensuing mayhem, disharmony, and discord that both he and his cronies fomented inside the Roman Catholic Church since Vatican II ended in 1965, or, instead, a loyal lay acolyte of the same fraternity that has delivered (frequently over the course of the last 45 years) woeful and banal liturgy “in the vernacular” augmented in many instances by uninspiring and beat-led Taize “songs and chants”.  These hitherto all-powerful and misguided miscreants, during the course of the last four decades, even had the audacity and impudence to change (on a whim) the important original Latin text of the Holy Mass e.g. “Credo” immediately went from “I believe” to the incorrect “We believe” and, more importantly, Our Lord’s own words at the consecration of His precious blood were deliberately corrupted by them from the original which stated that it was for the salvation “of the many” to, instead, “the salvation of ALL”.  Consequently, this warped “verballing” of Our Lord’s own words and original meaning dovetailed neatly into their own leftist and “progressive” new philosophy and mantra which they wished to both promulgate and promote on every occasion since i.e. “that God loves us all, and that no matter what sins (e.g. including wantonly missing Holy Mass on Sundays, due to increasing personal apathy and laziness) God would automatically forgive them, and so let them into heaven”.  Ergo, little wonder that Sunday attendance has drastically plummeted and fallen away over the interim, and nowhere more so than up on Murkyside which is not only (allegedly) the U.K. epicentre of “progressivism” but also is numerically the largest diocese in Britain (with 500,000+ baptised “on the books”) – but also presently has the worst Sunday attendance (circa 11.5%).  This compares to 25% each in the other two super-dioceses of Birmingham and Westminster.  And unlike inside the Murkyside diocese, both Birmingham and Westminster dioceses reject the very idea of sanctioning any “Eucharists in Parallel” (i.e. a Holy Mass and a Protestant service “celebrated” SIMULTANEOUSLY at the altar inside a Catholic church) as well as frequent mass-absolutions of the laity, who thereafter do not see the need to go to proper confession at all.  But, specifically, and in respect to the 2008 closure and present fate of THE DOME OF HOME, perhaps our friend “Savonarola” can explain what happened to the parish’s £1/3 million in its bank account on the day it was closed (and not been seen since) as well as the gold and bejewelled basilica monstrance (valued by Christies at a further £1/4 million) which apparently has also disappeared, and all in contravention to Canon Law 1256 which says that under no circumstances does a diocese own the patrimony of any particular parish, nor the cash in its bank account? 

  • Anonymous

    Has the ICKSP formally taken over this church yet?

  • Walthew

    I am still hedging my bets, but is it possible that ‘Savonarola’ is a ‘she’ ?

  • Kennyinliverpool

    They don’t have their own website and they don’t have advertise their Mass times … which is really annoying!

  • +Virginia

    Blessingsd on all the previous writers of comentary. 

    May I take exception to much of what has been said. Vatican II never intended the reforms to be taken to the level that essentially gave us the mass of Cranmer. What has been lost in the English version of the mass is the beauty of its doctrine which permiated the readings of the Offetory and Cannon of the mass. The prayers of the 1962 Roman Missal give a constant refreshment of doctrine to the one who prays with the priest using the English translation. Here there is mention of the Basic Turths of faith which will never be archiac, We read of the Trinity and the relationships of the three persons of the Trinit with eachother and with us, the glories of Mary and her primacy over the saints and angles, the communion of saints ( apostles, popes, doctors of the church, mytars (men and women), the sacrifice of the Son of God and his Resurection. This is certainly much to be preferred to the new English version of the Offertory that reduces the offering to created elements of nature (breead and wine) and makes them solely the work of huamn hands. Where is the theology for this in the Catichism?Sorry, my friends, but just maybe the youth are drawn to the Latin mass because they have found the substance that hes been lost and the faith that they were never taught. There is much to meditate on in the Latin Mass, something you can get your teeth into.May I recomend the ordinary of the 1962 Roman Missal for your reading and edification.+Virginia