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Rome summons SSPX leader for doctrinal talks

By on Friday, 26 August 2011

Bishop Fellay ordains a priest during a ceremony in Écône, Switzerland (CNS photo/Denis Balibouse, Reuters)

Bishop Fellay ordains a priest during a ceremony in Écône, Switzerland (CNS photo/Denis Balibouse, Reuters)

The head of a group of traditionalist Catholics will meet Vatican officials on September 14 to continue a series of doctrinal discussions.

The Vatican confirmed that Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior general of the Society of St Pius X (SSPX), will travel to Rome in mid-September to meet Cardinal William Levada, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The superior of the Society in Germany, Fr Franz Schmidberger, said on the group’s website that the meeting would discuss the results of doctrinal dialogues from the past two years.

The priest, who is not expected to attend the September meeting, said the discussions would focus on the Society’s “point of view of canon law”, adding that the atmosphere of previous talks had been “very good”.

The talks were launched in late 2009 in an effort by Pope Benedict XVI to repair a 21-year rift with the Society. The Pope said that full communion for the group’s members would depend on “true recognition of the Magisterium and the authority of the Pope and of the Second Vatican Council”.

But Bishop Fellay has said that the Society has been using the talks as a means to show the Holy See the contradictions between the Church’s traditional teachings and its practices since Vatican II.

The dialogue with the Vatican was not a search for compromise but “a question of faith”, Bishop Fellay said in February.

Fr Davide Pagliarani, superior of the Society in Italy, said: “The canonical situation in which the Society presently finds itself is [the] result of its resistance to the errors that infest the Church.

“Consequently, the possibility of the Society arriving at a regular canonical situation does not depend on us but on the hierarchy’s acceptance of the contribution that tradition can make to the restoration of the Church,” he said in an interview published in English on the Society’s website.

Pope Benedict XVI placed the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei under the authority of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in July 2009. He said that the commission would be responsible for talks aimed at restoring “full communion” with members of the SSPX, founded by the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

The Vatican said the talks had focused on the concept of tradition, liturgical reform, interpretation of the Second Vatican Council in continuity with Catholic doctrinal tradition, Church unity, ecumenism, the relationship between Christianity and non-Christian religions, and religious freedom.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Sweetjae,

    It is your lack of Catholic sense which makes you misread that quotation from Cardinal Manning.  A truly  Catholic soul knows that the foundation of the Catholic Church is Tradition (and Scripture which grew out of Tradition).  Therefore we have a DUTY to  criticize – and even correct – a pope when he departs from that sure foundation of our Faith. Unlike Protestants, who want to CHANGE the Faith, Catholic critics like the SSPX seek to PRESERVE the Faith when it is under attack and Canon Law itself imposes this duty on us, even on lay people, to make know our concerns for the good of the Faith. 

    Far from the SSPX being “tossed to and fro and carried about by the words of men” they are  doing the very opposite – refusing to accept novel teachings such as ecumenism, condemned by every other pope in history.  That you cannot see where the truth lies here, is very troubling. 

  • Anonymous

    Sweetjae

    I am grateful to the Moderator for deleting what you said. It underlines the need for you to seek sources of sanctifying grace, such as the Traditional Latin Mass, the Rosary, and doing penance.

    May I ask how you are able know the level of humility within my soul when I receive Our Lord? “Show”? Sweetjae. “Proud and disobedient”? Sweetjae.  May I ask how you justify these uncharitable assumptions?

    I know the difference between true obedience and false obedience and if the subject interests you, you might like to visit this most instructive source .  There you will discover where you have been in the wrong in the majority of posts you have made on this thread.

    As for your accusation that I am proud, I consecrated myself as a slave to Mary after reading St. Louis De Montfort’s “True Devotion to Mary” and as her slave I try hard to suppress all inclinations towards pride. I recommend his book to you.

    Open your mind Sweetjae and get reading.

  • Dissidentcatholic

    So you wouldn’t support female priests and married priests then?

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Got it in one.

  • Sweetjae

    Haven’t  seen the LIGHT yet, huh? For your info I have seen and read the article of your bishop and to me and faithful Catholics around the world don’t give any credibility or even lean to  believe in such a man. The example of saints and circumstances behind  his articles is not even and remotely similar to what had happened to Bishop Lefebvre, you may wish but sorry there is no comparison.

    You said you have consecrated yourself to Our Lady well that’s good however, it doesn’t necessarily mean you are being obedient to Heaven’s Will and Authority. There are a lot of proud priests and bishops in the underworld so don’t flag it as a symbol of humility. Even Our Lady asked Lucia several times to always obey her superiors!!!!!…and you and SSPX are unlike Lucia.

    The problem with you and SSPX is your are blinded by your pride and arrogance of what you see to yourselves as  right with what the  Tradition say…you only believed in yourselves and your human faculties to discern what is true Tradition thus in reality you and SSPX are quilty of being MAGISTERIUM of your own “church”.

    You always deny this but your actions speak louder than your words. This is my last reply to you. If you don’t agree with the Catholic Church’s Magisterium, why Bishop Fellay and guys like you just split from us and make your own church with your own rules? If bishop Lefebvre believed (from his writings) that the church headed by the pope separated from Tradition and thus stopped being the true church, why not leave? Like your brothers the Sedevacantists!

  • Sweetjae

    It is you who really failed to understand real obedience to God’s ordained Authority and your examples of abuses (mostly liberal clergy) are sins and corruption of men that doesn’t in anyway nullify the Teachings of Church on Vatican 2 and CCC.

    The bottom line is you and SSPX have set up a novel principle of interpreting Tradition by your own authority that is why when you guys try to defend your position you give arguments that are almost VERBATIM (word for word) by the protestant apologists we have encountered.

    The protestants novel idea of “Bible Alone” and SSPX’s novel idea of “Tradition Alone” is really and glaringly evident, clones.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    But the SSPX (and I) have never SAID “Tradition alone” – don’t be daft.

    You  are saying, in effect, that the pope who  canonised Cardinal Robert Bellarmine got it wrong. That the infallible act of canonisation couldn’t have been infallible because Cardinal (SAINT) Robert Bellarmine whose writings are famed for his teaching about the extent AND LIMITS of papal authority, are heretical. That is what you are saying because what I’ve said about papal authority is taken  from  Saint Robert Bellarmine.

    Your call. 

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

     Sweetjae,

    You are being very disobedient to Pope Benedict who lifted the (unjust) excommunications against the SSPX bishops (the clergy and laity were never excommunicated).  Read this article where Pope Benedict’s own words on lifting the excommunications – and what they  mean – are explained
    http://www.remnantnewspaper.com/Archives/2011-0831-ferrara-full-communion.htm

    It never  ceases to amaze me that people like you will defend to  the hilt, heretical positions (they’re not “teachings of the Church”) like the ecumenism  promoted after Vatican II, thereby raising Protestants and other schismatics to a new level in the  Church, prohibited by every previous pope  in history, yet they detest the SSPX for the crime of wanting to  keep alive the Mass that  the martyrs  gave their lives to defend.

    Reflect on that linked article and ask yourself  whether, in fact, it is YOU who are the heretic here, not leprechaun and not moi.

    Finally, I hear the Pope prayed for  in our local SSPX chapel.  When I tried to have a bidding prayer for  the pope included in a  school Mass for the Feast of SS Peter & Paul some years ago, the chaplain was livid. There’s a schism all right, but it’s not the SSPX who are in schism. That’s obvious to anyone with an ounce of  Catholic sense, let alone Catholic theology.

  • Anonymous

    Sweetjae,

    The bitterness in your posts is heartbreaking. Time will show that the Conciliar Church has led the faithful away from Tradition on a number of scores and this is demonstrable. I urge you to make the devotion known as the Five First Saturdays, the instructions for which are given here:
    http://www.fatima.org/essentials/message/lucy3.asp
    by Sr. Lucia herself, whilst attending a Traditional Latin Mass. At the end of the five months you should be able to detect a great increase in sanctifying grace within your soul.
    I do agree with the Magisterium of the Catholic Church – but not with every whim of the successors to the Rhine Fathers as you would have me do.
    Please know that the SSPX are not sedevacantist and that they cannot accept your invitation to leave the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which they are doing their level best to protect against error.
    May Our Lady help you find the truth, and, with it, peace of mind.
    God bless you.

  • Anonymous

    Sweetjae,

    The bitterness in your posts is heartbreaking. Time will show that the Conciliar Church has led the faithful away from Tradition on a number of scores and this is demonstrable. I urge you to make the devotion known as the Five First Saturdays, the instructions for which are given here:
    http://www.fatima.org/essentials/message/lucy3.asp
    by Sr. Lucia herself, whilst attending a Traditional Latin Mass. At the end of the five months you should be able to detect a great increase in sanctifying grace within your soul.
    I do agree with the Magisterium of the Catholic Church – but not with every whim of the successors to the Rhine Fathers as you would have me do.
    Please know that the SSPX are not sedevacantist and that they cannot accept your invitation to leave the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which they are doing their level best to protect against error.
    May Our Lady help you find the truth, and, with it, peace of mind.
    God bless you.

  • Sweetjae

    I know the limits of Papal authority for Pete’s sake, what you don’t seem to get is…. St. Bellarmine wasn’t even talking about it and for sure he will agree that when the Church declared and ratified TO THE HIGHEST DEGREE OF AUTHORITY the Council of Vatican 2 and CCC, as  faithful catholics one must fully assent his will to it….NO BUTS!

    Do you understand and read my previous comments? Why are you so insistent for this off-topic argument? the point of argument is not about the Pope or his authority or St. Bellarmine’s canonization , the POINT of argument is the CHURCH’S MAGISTERIAL AUTHORITY that ratified and declared Vatican 2, to which you and SSPX don’t recognize, do you understand, so stop with these red-herring arguments of yours, its really boring.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

     Your posts are remarkably  like one that Profidebookstore used to post – poor soul, just hadn’t a clue.  No offence  meant -but you say exactly the same things as he/she  did, with the capital letters in exactly the same place…

    So, I copied this from your post  to  ask you about:

    TO THE HIGHEST DEGREE OF AUTHORITY the Council of Vatican 2

    What does that mean?  Quote me statement from any document of Vatican II which tells us that this is a  confirmed, dogmatic council.  So far, all  the popes have said it is “merely” (Pope Benedict’s word) a “pastoral  council”

    Tell me convincingly, that I must accept the Decree on Ecumenism, as true and binding or I risk my salvation.

    A quote from Vatican  II – specifically.  If you cannot do that (as  you cannot because there is no such statement)then stop making an idiot of yourself.  The only words I want to see in capital  letters from you after this is “SORRY  I HAVE  BEEN SUCH A DOPE!”

  • Sweetjae

    You and SSPX just left the One, Holy Catholic Church albeit not formal but schism from your will and heart. Who is following the every whim of the Rhine Fathers? You grouped all catholics together that doesn’t agree with your interpretation of tradition as “whim”  and “diabolical”? Who is really making false, uncharitable and arrogant judgments here? You keep on looking  to yourselves as the holders of the true faith very much like the Sedevacantists and protestants, there is no difference mind you only the “show”. Oh,  by the way even the Seds and some Radical Trads are very “devoted” to Our Lady, just look at their websites, so don’t show it to my face that you are right because you are a “slave” of Mary, it doesn’t follow at all.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Spot  on, Basil  Loft@ass:disqus
     (I LOVE your  username! And if you read our newsletter, you’ll know why!)

    Hatred of the SSPX stems from the simple fact, as  you say, that the SSPX has been proved right on every count. 

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

     Who  are you to judge anyone’s “will and heart”?  You are way off beam, Sweetjae, haven’t a clue, so I’m going to bow out now, leaving you  to enjoy your new religion.

    I notice you visit the websites of Sedevacantists, something I have never knowingly done and never will do. You  are one crazy mixed-up kid, with the emphasis  on, er, “one”…

  • Anonymous

    A good try, Madame Editor, but a man convinced against his will remains a man of the same opinion still. Sweetjae has to arrive at the truth himself, and with the help of the Holy Ghost, and Our Lady, he surely will – if he so wishes there to arrive.
    Goodnight and God Bless.

  • Anonymous

    Your Ron Paul is named Nigel Farage of UKIP.  Treasure him as we do Ron Paul.