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SSPX leaders have rejected Vatican statement, says superior

By on Wednesday, 2 November 2011

Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior of the SSPX, ordains a priest in Econe, Switzerland (Photo: CNS)

Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior of the SSPX, ordains a priest in Econe, Switzerland (Photo: CNS)

Leaders of the Society of St Pius X (SSPX) have agreed that the doctrinal preamble presented to them by the Vatican is “completely unacceptable”, according to the society’s district superior in Britain.

In a newsletter posted online and subsequently removed, Fr Paul Morgan said SSPX superiors had rejected the doctrinal principles set out by the Vatican as the basis for further discussion.

The superiors met last month in Albano, Rome, but said they would only issue a response to the Vatican after further study.

In an official statement today the SSPX said that “only the General House of the Society of St Pius X is entitled to make public an official communiqué or authorised commentary on this matter”.

In his letter Fr Morgan said it was “disappointing” that the doctrinal statement, handed to SSPX leaders by Cardinal William Levada, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, “failed to acknowledge the break between traditional and conciliar teachings”.

“Instead,” he wrote, “it insisted upon the ‘hermeneutic [interpretation] of continuity’, stating that the new teachings included and improved upon the old!

“So it was perhaps not surprising to learn that the proposed doctrinal basis for any canonical agreement in fact contained all those elements which the Society has consistently rejected, including acceptance of the New Mass and of Vatican II as expressed in the New Catechism. Indeed, the document itself conveys the impression that there is no crisis in the Church…

“Hence the stated consensus of those in attendance was that the doctrinal preamble was clearly unacceptable and that the time has certainly not come to pursue any practical agreement as long as the doctrinal issues remain outstanding.”

The Vatican statement listed several principles that the SSPX had to agree with in order to move towards full conciliation with Rome.

It came after two years of doctrinal talks between leaders of the SSPX and officials at the Vatican.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Well, you have a point but when the prophecies come true before our very eyes, I’d say such private revelations are trustworthy enough.  Wouldn’t you?

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Same thing, Sugar Plum.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    I know what you mean, Robin Ryan. These ignorant SSPX folk just won’t get with the programmes (Vatican II and Assisi 1,2,3) 

    What on EARTH are they thinking of?  I mean, if the Pope wants to pray with pagans and Protestants and animists and Satanists (oops, don’t think they were there this time – that’ll be Assisi 4) what’s the problem. 

    As you say – bunch of heretics.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    No need to wait for Bishop Fellay on that matter, Guest.  Hell will have been frozen over for a century of two million before any SSPX priest risks his soul by saying the Masonic-inspired novus ordo.  No WAY!

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    And balloons and clowns and just about anything you want,  Sugar Plum. The new Mass is  all things to all men, women, children and transgenders. 

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Really?  Who told you that?  (Any of that…)

    Your post is the original disinformation package.  Go to http://www.catholictruthscotland.com and read the Mass page.  Educate yourself on the origin and purpose of the new Mass that you (God help you) think is the “real Mass”.  It’s about as “real” as Santa Claus.  Check the facts, Honey Bunch.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Darling, why not catch up with a little Church history?  You make the painfully common mistake of thinking that popes never make mistakes.  You do not realise that there are limits to the guarantee of infallibility promised to popes by Christ.  To equate the SSPX with Luther reveals a massive gap in your religious education. Go to http://www.catholictruthscotland.com and select the Open Letter to Confused Catholics on the Links page.  That’ll be a start for you.

    Or maybe you think there is nothing wrong in the Church right now, that popes praying with snake worshippers (and expressing delight at the fact) and priests writing heresy in Catholic newspapers is all par for the course?

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    WOW!  And to think priests have been ticked off by their bishops for saying that in the novus ordo (or Nervous Disorder) Mass.  Seen any bishops with their tails between their legs recently?

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Nothing boring about the NO Mass.  Clowns, balloons, clapping, jokes, guitars, pop songs… anything but boring, chum.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    You make the common mistake of thinking about whether or not you enjoy the Mass.  Even if you find the ordinary Latin low Mass the most boring thing in the world, that doesn’t matter.  You are  still receiving grace. 

    Unlike the Nervous Disorder “fabrication” (quote from Cardinal Ratzinger)

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Can be.  Not guaranteed.  Mgr Klaus Gamber – THE liturgical expert, according to Pope Benedict – says clearly in his landmark work on The  Roman Liturgy that there is no question about it, the number of invalid Masses has increased since the introduction of the NO.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    And which version of the CTS Order of Mass do they use – the one which commands Communicants to receive standing or the version with that illicit instruction deleted.  In Glasgow they are using the former.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001903258828 Patrick Mulvey

    Editor…I was responding to the boring comment of crouchback about the NO.Mass since he would like to go back to the traditional Mass.   I personally don’t find any Catholic rite Mass boring for the reasons that you stated.  

  • Alcuin

    The Roman papacy is “banal” and “invalid”.

  • Alcuin

    “I’m with Bishop Fellay…..whatever happens.”

    Yes, you may get your wish soon enough.  By joining him and the other SSPX heretics in the outer darkness where the weeping and gnashing of teeth occur.

    Until Benedict XVI has passed on, the Church must continue to suffer their disgusting presence amongst us.  Proof the Bishop of Rome can and indeed does lead the Roman flock into error.

  • Nishant Jeyaraj

     The Pope didn’t call the Ordinary Form banal, that is a complete misrepresentation. The Ordinary Form of the Roman rite is the Mass of the Ages, as is every other rite of the Catholic Church.

    It was the frequent abuses that he called a “banal, on the spot production” instead of the timeless heavenly liturgy the Ordinary Form correctly celebrated is. It is never ever lawful to cast doubt on what Holy Mother Church has handed down to us in any of her rites. To do so is a notoriously schismatic attitude.

    I dearly, dearly hope the SSPX will not go down a schismatic path, although it appears they are. It is the FSSP that has always had the right idea. Tradition with obeisance to the Living Magisterium, for the two are inseparable. It is a treason and a heresy to reject the living voice of the Church, according to Cardinal Manning, in the 19th century.

    The Catholic Church has been unbelievably kind in dealing with them. But let them concede this first, for it is what distinguishes the Catholic and the schismatic. If their hearts are already so hardened against the true obedience that by divine ordinance they are bound to give ot the Roman Church, as Vatican I teaches, then so be it. Let them go.

    Otherwise, Rome already has the answer to all the doctrinal questions they’ve raised, on collegiality, ecumenism and the like and will be very glad to lay it out for them. But obedience is non-negotiable. First, prove that you are willing to be subservient to the living voice of the Magisterium.

  • Anonymous

    We can only thank the SSPX for providing a valid argument to the Vatican  on matters of faith that will effect our very souls.    The Pope needs these arguments to reach decisions that can effect millions of souls and there relationship with God our creator.   
                         Most of the New order has no valid foundation,  The propensity to Reserection as the focal point of worship, rather than the Cross, is fatal.   The reserection is judgement  you are aking for, not help and support as in the Cross.    Who rejoices in going to Court,-
                    Who decided that a priest’s main role was to entertain his congregation? by facing them as the main reason for being there?     We are there to visit calvery, and the sacrificed God, to put our spirit to God in this sacrifice, and thereby adjust our concience, by receiveing this sacrificed spirit in the form of bread  we also contract, in my opinion.  To face the cross,and the blessed  sacrament, and lead us to the the cross, is a very valid statement of what is going on at the mass.
                         I hope the Pope takes on what the SSPX  is stating, because they are the only catholic voice that has any  sense.

  • Nat_ons

    Yet as a group of souls and a Fraternity of the Faith it does hate what Benedict XVI et al represents – the church catholic at Rome in orthodox faith. The SSPX has the potential to be a great force for good in the Church as catholic and orthodox, or it may continue being a protest group among the many protestantisms from Donatus to the Anglicans and Old Catholicism, desiring – sincerely – to assert themselves as truly orthodox and catholic .. but without the Pope. Here, then, is the dilemma: Rome needs them to flourish fully, they do not need Rome to protest as they might so please.

    I have a great deal of sympathy for the SSPX stance, for a Syllabus of Errors arising at and from the Second Vatican Council would not go amiss. The mere repetition of a particular interpretation of the continuity of Tradition in the Council, its meaning, basis and import cannot ever be enough to satisfy those properly concerned by the wholesale abandonment of the Catholic Faith as witnessed at Rome from the first days. Any viable hermeneutic must give account of the rupture(s) between Tradition and practice not glide past them; based, that is, firmly on a standard of sound doctrine rather than atmosphere.

    Where the SSPX falls into error, even if not equal to nor properly equivalent to that of the We-Are-Church hippy-hippy-shake Age of Aquarius, is in this: Protest. It makes a virtue out of it, and does this every bit as vigorously much as the Marcionists, Lutherans, Utrechters and Liberationionists; it is merely the kind of protest not the degree that can offer the SSPX any sort of justification in opposing the awesome Benedict XVI .. because it seeks a conforming unity to him, sincerely so, in theory (if not always in fact). And into this pit of protest, with all the mire that surrounds it, the SSPX members merrily march, convinced of their invincible mission to remake the popes in the image of their own privately interpreted opinions; that is not the vision of its originators, who sought chiefly that the church catholic in unity with the popes should restore, keep and acclaim the orthodox expression of the Faith intact, without tinkering, and amid the witness of ages .. a thing they make impossible in rejecting the continuity of VII with past and future teaching, almost, but never quite, as damagingly as the hierarchy’s Masons, Lutheranised Liturgical Experts et al rejoicing in Satan’s blinding smoke that oozed up around the protest-set-free spirit (still alive and damnable) in the sanctuaries.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Wrong.  Cardinal Ratzinger wrote the following, in the Preface to the French edition of The Reform of the Roman Liturgy by Mgr Klaus Gamber.  After documenting the normal means by which the Mass had developed over the centuries, Cardinal Ratzinger wrote:

    “What happened after the Council was totally different:
    in the place of liturgy as the fruit of development came fabricated
    liturgy.

    We left the living process of growth and development
    to enter the realm of fabrication. There was no longer a desire to continue
    developing and maturing, as the centuries passed and so this was replaced–as if
    it were a technical production–with a construction, a banal on-the-spot
    product.”

    Again you are way off beam when you claim that “obedience” is “non-negotiable.”  Obedience is not the highest virtue – obedience must always be subordinate to Truth. 

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Whatever you say, pal.  And I suppose Richard Dawkins is the Brain of Britain?  Yeah, right.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    You wrote: “nothing is more ‘boring’ than the ordinary Latin low Mass”

    Think about that: nothing is more boring than the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the same Mass which nourished the spiritual lives of saints and martyrs for centuries.

    And if you think that God is communicating graces in the same way through the Masonic concoction called the New (and getting newer by the minute) Mass then you are plain and simply wrong.

    Entire generations have been brought up thinking as you do about the old and the ever-newer Mass.  Two entirely different “rites” and for that, one day, these modern popes will be held very very accountable.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    “outside”?  The SSPX?  Please explain that – the only statements I can find from authoritiative sources (such as Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos who was appointed by the Pope to speak for him on the matter) says the opposite: “Those who believe the SSPX to be in schism, do not understand the situation.”

    Get a grip.

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Thus you betray your hatred of all that is Catholic.  You hate “the disgusting presence” of undiluted Catholicism that the SSPX represents.  God help you. 

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Could we have some evidence of the “infusion” of the Holy Spirit at Vatican II? I’ve missed that news bulletin.

  • Tony

    One can never argue from private revelations to doctrine!!!

  • Nishant Jeyaraj

    Pope Benedict has clarified that he was speaking primarily of how the rite is celebrated. And no, truth was grounded by Christ on Peter, not on private individuals.

    Vatican I: “Both clergy and faithful, of
    whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power
    by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters
    concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government
    of the Church throughout the world.”

    We must obey because divine guidance is assured, we must obey because what the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven.

  • Danphunter

    Angel 3
    When has the SSPX declared that the NO is invalid?
    Never.
    The Society has its problems but they have never said that the NO is invalid.
    Where do you get that from?

  • Anonymous

    I am speaking of the people posting in this thread. Many are making that inane and sinful claim!

  • http://www.catholictruthscotland.com EditorCT

    Do you mean like the “tidal wave of priests” working with the Transalpine clergy up there in the Diocese of Aberdeen?  Or, wait a minute, aren’t those the priests who are not even allowed to offer TLM in parishioners  homes now, unlike before they were “reconciled”?

    You’re a daydreamer, our crouchback.  A nice fruity daydreamer.  Yip, that’s it.  Fruit and nut…

  • Alcuin

      In addition, the Novus Ordo mass was co-authored by Protestant
    advisors and Msgr. Bugnini, who was later discovered to be a Mason.
    =================================================================================
    This is an SSPX fiction which becomes more ridiculous with each repetition of it.  There is absolutely l NO evidence whatsoever archbishop Bugnini was EVER a Mason.  Protestant observers were just that, observers.  They had  no say in the final structure of the NO.  Those bishops who shaped the NO had already brought their ideas to the council with them.

     Pope Paul VI and Father Joseph Ratzinger, a petitus to the archbishop of Munich,  by the way, did in fact marvel at the simplicity of Protestant rites, the streamlined nature of Anglican and Lutheran rubrics, and made no effort to hide that fact. Pope Paul himself approved of the NO and approved post-conciliar changes to it. Nothing was foisted by Protestants upon the pontiff or anyone else at the Council.

     Read any serious history of the Council and you will see for yourself. Stop relying on rubbish and character assassinations of an archbishop unable to defend himself.

  • Alcuin

    Yes, both the SSPX and most Sedevacantists here in the U.S. have indeed declared the NO Mass “invalid”, not just “illicit”.

  • Alcuin

    All Roman masses today are boring, whether they’re antique/museum piece  exercises in the EF or made-on-the spot performances in the OF.  A total remake of the eucharistic liturgy from beginning to end is needed to end the liturgical ennui in which all Catholics ultimately find themselves imprisoned.

  • Inquisator

    If you are a Catholic you either believe what Our Lord promised about His Catholic Church or not.     

    I wasn’t aware from the Holy Scriptures that Jesus ever addressed his disciples and followers as a Church, nor that he ever made a personal reference about the Catholic Church at all.  Jesus came to establish the Kingdom – he never founded a church but what  remains of His original intent is a fabricated monarchical man-made entity that preaches itself and not the Gospel.

    As for this Mass and that Mass;  surely the most important issue here is whether or not the priest and people in their attendance remain faithful to Christ’s admonishment that they ‘do this in memory of me’, and not spend so much time wasting hot air about usless frippery.

  • http://twitter.com/FourfoldVision Fourfold Vision

    I feel a little lost. Could someone please tell me how to find the Church?

  • Bruddajoe

    KARP!

  • Bruddajoe

    OSTRICH?

  • Bruddajoe

    Fellay is a quisling.

  • akp1

    Well you are fortunate to be able to do so. The majority of us do not have that option available to us. Until BXVI’s Summorum Pontificum is actually considered worthwhile by British Bishops most of us have to attend NO Masses – some worse than others.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbZaf2R2r-Q Bellator

    Ironic comment, since the Novus Ordo itself was created to appease and attempt to lure Protestants, specifically. The SSPX are like St Athanasius during the Arian crisis. Modernism is the Arianism of our day.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jack-Hughes/100000562751914 Jack Hughes

    Dear CT, as far as I am aware the good Padre who offers Mass under both forms uses the missal currently in place which allows the Communicants to recieve either kneeling or standing (if you think that affects the validity of the Mass then I charitably suggest you go to back catechism class),

    I’ve never seen anyone stand to recieve at Masses offered by the Religious Priest I know who offers the EF pretty much exclusively (could you please pray for him as he is very ill at the moment) and Fr X (secular Priest) whilst encouraging people to recieve kneeling does not try and make a big scene at the communion rite if they chose not to (however at the school where he is chaplin I guess they always receive kneeling and on the tounge)

  • Alcuin the Outraged

    The pope is now left with no alternative but to anathematize these fascist heretics.  To placate them and curry favor with the SSPX would be leading the Church into error.   Benedict XVI has no choice but to cast them into the outer darkness where there is weeping etc.

  • Alcuin the Outraged

    This is pure rubbish.

  • Parasum

    STM that the Mass is what one makes of it – regardless of the form of the rite. Those who are open to it, will experience as what it is. Those who can see only the externals, won’t. 

  • Parasum

    “The propensity to Reserection as the focal point of worship, rather than the Cross, is fatal.”

    ## Crucified Jews were a pretty common sight. The Resurrection of Jesus is unique – as unique, and as important, as the creation. It’s the pledge and guarantee of all other resurrections, and a trustworthy and effective sign of the renewal of all creation. Without the Resurrection, the Passion would be abortive & incomplete: the going-down of God Incarnate into death makes sense only if it is completed by His decisive & final victory over death – and with it, over evil, sin, and hell. The Resurrection is central in a way that the Passion is not, for the Passion is meaningless if it is not completed by the Resurrection. The Resurrection presupposes the Passion, but the Passion does not by itself imply the Resurrection – not as something for the disciples to cope with: they went to pieces after the Passion, & it took the good news of the Resurrection, and the Resurrection Appearances, to change that. 

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbZaf2R2r-Q Bellator

    “We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren that is for the Prostestants.” – Freemason Annibale Bugnini, inventor of the Novus Ordo, L’Osservatore Romano, 19 March 1965.

  • Lilian Gisela

    Cismatics! Re-Excommunicate them!

  • No more N.O (Please!)

    No, but Our Lord clearly gave the Office of Prime Minister to St Peter , not to forget ALSO the power of
    “binding and loosing” http://www.catholic.com/tracts/peter-the-rock

    You can’t argue with Jewish Tradition  OR the obvious reference of Christ Himself to Isaiah 22:22 when talking to St Peter.  The Jewish Davidic King always had a Prime Minister who looked after the Kingdom whilst the King was away…….The Office was defined by the “giving of the keys”  and to this day we continue this Tradition in the Church stating that the Holy Apostolic Father is the latest holder of “the keys of St Peter”

    All of the Teachings of the Catholic Church are rooted in Scripture.  That is why so many formerly anti-Catholic Protestant Theologians (for instance Dr Scott Hahn) join it after studying it’s claims to try and prove them to be false.

    It’s all there!

  • No more N.O (Please!)

    Tony, 

    No offence but that is not very convincing – in the case of Marie Julie JahennyI also, like many other concerned people are aware of the Prophecies of Marie Julie Jahenny.  Stigmatic, Victim Soul, Eucharistic Faster and Visionary whose authenticity was validated both by Scientific Examination and the visit of a Pope. St “Padre” Pio called her a “Humble Violet”  The Holy Roman Pontiff Pope Pius XII so respected her that he graced her with a visit during his apostolic rip to France.  She was also visited and trusted by many, many other Bishops and Clergy all of whom testified to the many miracles, supernatural graces and events that she was blessed with  Her sanctity was also unquestionable although many had sought to discredit her. Interestingly like many other Holy Catholic Mystics and Stigmatics St Padre Pio, St Anne Catherine Emmerich, Blessed Elizabeth Cannon Mora etc…. she was blessed by a prophecy by Our Lord/Lady of ” 3 Days of Darkness.” during which all God’s enemies would perish.  (just google “3 days of Darkness” for a complete list of Saints who have prophecised this – the Prophecy  can also be found in Scripture.) My main concern about Marie Julie Jahenny is this, for a person who was Scientifically and medically examined – thus dispelling any doubts regarding her Authenticity, they are a wee bit too slow for my comfort with instigating her Canonisation Process. She is therefore due to be known by posterity (and Heaven) as being one of the most overlooked Saints of the twentieth Century – spurned by the Modernists, Masons and Liberals as being the one that proved that the real, true Divine God – Jesus Christ and His Holy Mother – not to forget the Archangel Michael were aware of what they were seeking to do and were determined to tell the world in advance.

  • Benedict Carter

    SORRY but the evidence is really there – one of the Protestant observers later wrote how he and he colleagues were actively sought out by the framers of the Novus Ordo for their input!

    A thing never, ever heard of in the Church’s history.

    You are simply wrong. 

  • Benedict Carter

    The Holy Father says different things to different people. He is trying to hold the middle ground so the whole thing doesn’t fall apart, but his problem is that, like Gorbachev, he has chosen the wrong middle ground. The former thought that Communism was reformable (after 400 million murders worldwide!); the Pope thinks he can build upon a middle ground produced by a Revolution in the Church that springs from SECULAR, not DIVINE wells. He is wrong. 

    The last 50 years has been a catastrophe: we are now the “75% Generation”: all over the world, vocations are down 75%; Mass attendance is down 75%; baptisms, conversions, marriages, all down 75%.

    THESE are the real fruits of Vatican II and the destroyers who have turned the Church upside down. Yes, and the fruits of the laity too, who mostly went along with it in bemusement, or who simply voted with their feet and left.

    There are a few fruitcakes in the SSPX, but there are many magnificent priests as well. I know two or three, and they are seriously impressive individuals: learned, full of prayer, totally centred on God (not on Man, as is the Conciliar Church, which has given us what appears to be a new religion); amusing, very concerned for the laity.

    As to the Traditional Mass, which watered the Church and millions upon millions of Catholics with Salvific Grace for at least 16 centuries, it is a different world to the Novus Ordo. It’s like a Michael Angelo against a scribble of a small child; it’s like gold plates against plastic tupperware; it’s like a Rolls Royce against an East German Trabant.   

    I for one would like to look the Holy Father in the eyes and ask him, “When you turned up to Vatican II holy Father dressed in your business suit and tie, what spirit came into your mind? What possible right did you and your useless hippy generation think you had to take away from me the right to worship as had all my ancestors for over fifteen hundred years? What on earth made you all do it?”

    And he shall not answer, but I do expect that a look of utter shame would cross his face, 

    The Novus Ordo – and the modern forms of the other Sacraments – have to go. We have to return to the fount of our spiritual life so that everyone again understands that there is only one responsibility in this world: to save our souls. The Old Mass makes this crustal clear. The Novus Ordo is a circus performance; a Marxist collective pretending to be at prayer. 

    ALL YOUNG CATHOLICS! Discover your birth-right, stolen from you by the Modernists and liberals of the 1960′s and 1970′s! Seek out the Old Mass and assist at it, with a Missal, some ten or fifteen times. get to know it. You won’t want ever to return to the Novus Ordo, which is a “bastard rite” (though sacramentally valid – but that is the VERY LEAST it should be).