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Bishop urges priests to drop the Hail Mary from Masses

By on Wednesday, 23 May 2012

Bishop Kieran Conry of Arundel and Brighton (Photo: Mazur)

Bishop Kieran Conry of Arundel and Brighton (Photo: Mazur)

The Hail Mary should not be part of the bidding prayers at Sunday Mass, Bishop Kieran Conry of Arundel and Brighton has told his clergy.

Bishop Conry wrote to his priests, saying: “Questions come up again and again about the inclusion of Marian prayers with the Prayers of the Faithful. There should be no Marian prayer at this point.”

But a liturgical scholar has suggested that the use of the Hail Mary may be an acceptable “local expression of prayer”.

Parish priests in Bishop Conry’s diocese have asked those who prepare the bidding prayers to exclude the Hail Mary. “However, this should not in any way undermine the importance of devotion to Mary and we strongly encourage the use of Marian prayers in the home and other non-Eucharistic liturgies,” said the newsletter of the parish of the Nativity of the Lord in Redhill, Surrey.

A spokesman for Bishop Conry said: “Bishop Kieran has recently reminded his clergy that the Hail Mary should not be included in the Prayers of the Faithful in line with the sample prayers provided in the Third Edition of the Roman Missal, the guidance provided by the bishops’ conference liturgy office, and his own previous Guidelines for Prayers of the Faithful issued in 2005.”

The guidelines state: “The Roman Rite does not, in fact, envisage the inclusion of devotional prayers in the Prayer of the Faithful. Following a medieval practice in England, the Hail Mary has been customarily said after the final intercession. Properly understood, a set of prayers directed to the Father, through the Son and in the power of the Holy Spirit, contains no obvious place for prayers to the saints. This is why, some years ago, the Holy See wrote to the Bishops of England and Wales advising that such devotional prayer should not have a place in the Prayer of the Faithful. The Holy See asked that the, by then, widespread practice be gradually and gently discouraged.”

Bishop Conry also told his clergy that “when the papal Masses for Pope Benedict’s visit in England were being prepared any set of Intercessions that were sent to Rome that included the Hail Mary were returned with this prayer removed”.

The diocesan spokesman added: “In offering this advice to his clergy Bishop Kieran is endeavouring to follow the mind of the Universal Church and encouraging them to do likewise.”

Prof David Fagerberg, author of Mary in the Liturgy, said that because the practice of including the Hail Mary was widespread in England but not elsewhere, there was a tension between national and universal practices.

He said: “Need things be the same in all countries? In matters of popular piety and devotion, certainly not. But the case of the official liturgy is different. So the question turns on this: is the use of the Hail Mary a local expression of prayer, or does it become a liturgical formula, part of the cultic act of the Church?”

He added: “We have suffered many decades of a false opposition between liturgy and devotion, with some liturgical scholars looking down their noses on Marian devotion. I would hope none of that is involved here.”

  • Parasum

    “Even the former Pope JP2 tried to do so indirectly by introducing the luminous mysteries which focused on Jesus as the centre”

    ## The intention was admirable, but the execution was sadly messed-up. The Rosary has 150 “Hail Mary”s, bec. there are 150 Psalms – & not 200 Psalms. The changes spoiled the balance of the Rosary, which is beautifully designed as it is. It does not need to be *more* Christ-centred – it is *already, totally* Christ-centred.  The Immaculate Conception is a work of Christ the Saviour & Sanctifier – as is the Assumption. The Coronation of Our Lady as Queen of Heaven & Earth (& so, as Queen of all creation) is an assertion of the Universal Kingship of Jesus Christ the Messiah-King; for He thereby gives to her a share in His Sovereignty & Dominion,which is an *active* Sovereignty & Dominion. The Rosary is beautifully simple – and wonderfully profound. It witnesses to Christ by showing us 15 of His “mighty works”. And of these, Mary is (in some ways) the greatest: she is “God’s master-piece”.  To have a Rosary in one’s pocket means that the whole world can be our place of prayer.

    “Then pray to God the Father through Jesus Christ (this has been lacking in the Catholic Church”

    ## Have you ever read the Eucharistic Prayers ? They are directed to the Father.

    “…because everyone is praying (wrongly) to Mary as if Mary has the power to do or deliver anything. She can’t do anything anymore. Her work is done. It has been done for 2,000years. ! The “Mary department” in heaven is closed down. She came to earth…”

    ## No. She was taken up body and soul from earth, where she came from. She is not from Heaven.

    “…to deliver the saviour and looked after him until his death. The doctrine was that she was “assumed” into heaven body and soul. Her Mission is over.”

    ## Jesus Christ *gives* life, or rather Life; His Risen Life. In this is seen His generosity & Love, for His Mother not least. She gave her Him her body & her life, that He might be born of her – He has more than repaid her, by giving her the  Divine Life which is His in common with His Father & the Holy Spirit.  She is therefore alive with the Life & Love of  God – & with no other life or love.  Christ is the Life of His Saints – they are not able to be dead.  That is our word, because we live in world full of death – but they live in a Christ Who is fullness of Life to them.  Her mission is not over, because she does what her Son does: He is the One Who give her all her attraction, all her “pulling-power”; she is a created means by which He draws men to the Father; as are all His members.  

    Of course she delivers. For the strength of Mary, and of all the Saints, is Christ Himself. He saves His Church through her. Of course He does, for she is one of the limbs of His Body. The only way to deny that she is a member/limb of His body, is to say she has no part in Him & is dead in spirit – IOW, to say she is damned. But she cannot be damned, for she lives by His Resurrection-Life.  Christ the Head of the Body cannot be separated from His members – least from His Saints in Heaven, for they are with Him where He is.

    “The Holy Spirit is the only God left here on earth by Jesus.”

    ## Where One Divine Person is, all Three are. They are not confined by space or time – we are, so we speak accordingly, *as though* God were.

  • Desertwatch333

    Yes, Mary has a part to play because she is the Mother of Jesus. However, the Mass is the greatest and most powerful prayer, the Sacrifice of Christ on the altar…and we place the prayers of the faithful within the Mass – adding a Hail Mary at that time seems to be saying that the Priest isn’t quite sure the Sacrifice of the Mass is not powerful enough to hold the prayers of the faithful while a Hail Mary does…in Waterbury, CT., a prayer is offered for the canonization of Fr. Michael Mcgivney…but it is always said after the Mass has ended…

  • Jae

    Bro. JByrne I really think you are the one who threw the baby together with the bath water by supporting a relationship which clearly condemned by the Holy Scripture, Patristic Fathers, Early Christians, The Councils of the Church, Magisterium, Catechism of the Catholic Church and Popes……gay marriage! Repent.

  • teigitur

    Plus ca change!

  • Scott

     Didn’t realise I was.

  • South Saxon

    I regret to say that there is no point in writing to +Kieran. He has his own agenda which often strays from the Magesterium. All we in Arundel and Brighton can do is to pray fervently during the Mass for “Kieran our bishop” and hope that he may, one day, see the error of his ways. 

  • Scyptical Chymist

     I refer you to George Orwell and Newspeak (1984) about the importance of language in exprressing thoughts and passing on information – I take it you believe words should mean what you want them to mean and not have some accepted interpretation to facilitate communication.

  • Sszorin

    If Hail Mary was not recited during the previous 300 years then it will be from now on. Vox populi vox Dei.

  • Mother27

    Yes, quite so, what an excellent point! Maybe I shall add that to the campaign. I just thought I would try and do something rather than nothing. I really miss celebrating the feasts days on  their special days. 

    By “destroyed” I just feel that there is this insidious creeping eradication of essential elements of the Catholic faith – and very soon we will wake up to the fact that we will have allowed it to happen – when there is no one at mass, the pews are empty, churches closed down. The Bishop will have no one left to write his letters to.To many people who attend Sunday Mass this is the only real quality time they get to engage with God and pray during the week. By reducing the prayer content of the mass takes away the opportunity to Pray. So that’s like one less Prayer a week. Bishop KC is completely out of touch with the real world and is trying to pass the buck & responsibility back to us by saying, don’t bother saying prayers at mass, do it when you get home. Do It Yourself – i’m not interested anymore!If the Bishop is wrong, he is wrong and should display the humility and grace to listen to the people – not shut the door in our face, be arrogant and sneer at us from an elated position. If he doesn’t want to say the Hail Mary anymore then he is saying I don’t like being a Catholic. He is sending the wrong message to the world.If I was to write to my local MP they would have the grace, manners & courtesy to listen to me about any issue at all – especially if it was to the detriment of my community & neibourhood  - the parish is my neibourhood & community and in effect therefore the Bishop is my MP for the protection of all this good for the community – he should show the same respect by answering us and understanding the long term damage that removing the Hail Mary from Sunday Mass will have on his watch, in his neibourhood.Thanks for responding – I appreciate your thoughts.

  • Mother27

    That’s very sad to hear – don’t give up South Saxon – keep praying! 

  • DBC

     Apart from this story, I can tell you Bishop Conry is a very hard working Bishop and often says mass in churches where the local priest is unavailable at short notice. Unlike some he was proactive in child protection long before it became the norm.

  • Bart_0117

    How about we wipe out the entire bidding prayers business altogether? I have the luck of hearing worthy intentions for them but I hear others have the misfortune of hearing words like global warming and other nonsense. Surely the Canon itself is sufficient for all such supplications? Get rid of them altogether and gradually the busy bodies of parishes will reveal their true faces.

  • Bart_0117

    I liked it because it exposes the sheer misery of how some people are completely denied access to traditional teachings on Asceticism. Self-distrust is an important part of Asceticism, practiced by numerous saints. If you think you can pioneer a new way away from the time-honoured, scripture-based ways of acquiring Spiritual Perfection (through God’s Grace) then I suggest you do it outside our Church.

  • Desertwatch333

    I respect you for honoring Our Lady but the Hail Mary is not and ESSENTIAL part of the Mass or of our faith…honoring Mary is.  Many pray the rosary all during Mass…there is a time and a place for the Rosary but not during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass…at our Parish, the Rosary is prayed by all BEFORE the Mass…the Mass is the most essential element of our faith…

  • jeffdownie

    You may be pleased to hear that the ‘Hail, Holy Queen…’ is recited after the Saturday morning rosary at Allen Hall Seminary every week, which all resident staff and students attend and participte in with prayerful joy and hope.

  • Desertwatch333

    you’re right Lanfranc, the Hail Mary has never been and never should be a part of the Mass…Pope Benedict made that clear when teaching about the sacred liturgies. Priests are not to insert their private devotions into the body of the Mass…if they want to ask the congregation to say a Hail Mary or to pray the rosary, this can be done before or after the Mass.  everyone has a particular devotion or prayer or novena that they would like included…the ‘essentials’ of the Mass are few…there are Priests who were in concentration camps or imprisoned in Russia or China who celebrated Mass with just the essentials…yes, as humans, it helps us to have ‘props’…even St. Teresa of Avila had a certain holy picture she loved…but all these things are personal….there is nothing – nothing – that equals the power and beauty of the Mass…nothing needs to be added because it is complete in itself.  Mary is our Mother and we should always love and honor her, but we have to be careful how we do this.  Jesus entrusted us to her as Mother, not as Savior.  Even Pope Benedict has said he does not have a great devotion to the Rosary as Pope John Paul did and yet, we cannot doubt for one moment his profound love for Mary.

  • Mike

     Actually, precisely in the bidding prayers, the fore runner of today’s prayers of the faithful used I suspect until the 19th century and the only vernacular part of the service in those days, the Hail Mary was said, sometimes more than once…

  • Honeybadger

    Well *duh!* that’s his job, isn’t it?

    Just because you’re a bishop, you don’t stop being a priest, do you?

    My parish priest and his brother priests run round ragged and meet themselves coming back covering a prison, airport, a large hospital, schools and is gearing up for the arrival of the relics of Saint John Vianney – patron of Parish Priests!

    The LPA runs a tight ship.

    My bishop does the same as yours (he does not blow any trumpet about what he does and what he doesn’t do for his flock) when it comes to hands-on pastoral care. He is devoted to Our Lady and encourages devotion to Mary in the diocese – which, in the short time he has been bishop, is gaining results and tons of support from Roman Catholics.

    Back to your post. What do you want us to do? Give Bishop Conry a round of applause and a Crackerjack pencil?

    I thank God and His Holy Mother and the Holy Father for choosing for my diocese an exceptional bishop, who does what it says on the packet – not a sample!

  • Honeybadger

    You’ve got my prayers!

  • Honeybadger

    WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

    JByrne24, why not blog on another website and desist from wasting time here because your contributions are about as useful as a liquorice lace climbing rope!

    Try Spongebob Squarepants…

  • Honeybadger

    Mary, Saint Joseph and the Saints are always included the Eucharistic Prayers…

    The Hail Mary is said before the Eucharistic Rite.

    So, Mary has no place in the Mass, eh? She points us to Christ…

  • cephas2

    If we must have the bidding prayers – for goodness sake leave the Hail Mary – Our Lady is our only haven sometimes from the PC diatribes.

  • Andrew

    Hard to believe the Hail Mary should not be part of the Mass when it`s Our Lord (Her Son) that is offered in the Sacrifice at the Mass .She was at the foot of the cross on Good Friday.She still present and interceding for us at Mass.It`s fitting she should be included in the bidding prayers.Sometimes there is too much Theology and too little prayer…

  • Andrew

     I  agree too!

  • Florin S.

    It’s beautiful to see the love and reverence for Our Lady that everyone has but remember, Mary was not at the last supper; Mary was not made a Priest – this is what radical feminists are doing today: demanding that they be ordained and often rejecting Christ Himself. Mary is loved and honored as the mother of Jesus…she is mentioned in the canon of the Mass. The holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the most powerful ‘prayer’ ever and sufficient for all intentions. Some Catholics have a devotion to praying the rosary (Pope Benedict prays the rosary but does not have the devotion Pope John Paul had.), other people have a devotion to a particular Novena or to the Divine Mercy prayers and these are all helps in our spiritual life…but none is essential. Only the Mass is essential…

  • Grandadxxx

    I was always told if you want something from a Jewish boy ask his Mama!!

  • Nat_ons

    It is not often I agree with His Grace the Bishop of Arundel and Brighton, Kieran Conry; here I do. 

    The beautiful Scripture forming the Angelic Salutation is part of the Holy Mass only when it is liturgically prescribed, the church catholic’s Ave is not – but like the Salve Regina and such like is a separate .. but perhaps contiguous .. devotion (as with extra-liturgical Leonine Prayers dropped by the Venerable Paul VI in the 1965 CE* trimming of Blessed John XXIII’s 1960 – 62 CE revision of the Blessed Pius XII’s restorations and modifications c. 1951 – 55 CE). 

    It is sad that this bishop can find no other – and much more grievous – fault with the liturgical practice in his charge (and that of others in England and Wales) to target for the chop .. these horrors teem and still cavort in merry abandon; perhaps they do not jar with his sensitive modernity as the far too overtly traditional Hail Mary, ‘Thou’ and ‘Thy’ and ‘Thee’, not even to start on the Holy Ghost might do – yet to give him his due (a single honour only, not double), the Ave Maria, Alma Mater, Salve Regina are not of the Eucharistic Liturgy (however, sung devoutly after the Ita Missa Est, now that is a different kettle of fish and another – rather older – dispute).

    * For those who simply like to dispute for dispute’s sake  - adding heat rather than light – I use CE dating (above) for ‘Christian Era’ not the meaningless Common Era sic of unhealthy political correctness.

  • Andrew

     There is only one almighty God the Father Son and Holy Spirit,all glory and honor are for him alone.

    There should not be a focus on the” place “of Mary and where/where not Hail Mary`s are said.Therefore we should be careful not to forget the love the Son of God has for His Mother.At the foot of the cross Our Lord said “Woman,behold Your son”…  here its clear in the Gospel Our Lord not only wanted but expected her presence at the foot of the cross.Today he expects us to pray to Mary, his Mother as our intercessor (Pray for us sinners?)The least we could do is honor our redeemer and follow in Our Lady`s example and her obedience to God.If it was not for Mary`s yes,they would be no last supper… Actually-Our lady is essential.She was and still is part of God`s plan for mankind,through her Our Redeemer came into the world.

  • Charles Martel

    If you’re going to throw out the Hail Mary, throw out all those bidding prayers too. The occasional times I have to attend the Novus Ordo Mass, I am appalled at the banality of these things. “We pray for the Methodist congregation of Bumstead Norton, and their minister Nigel Thwacking. May they grow in the love of the Lord and enjoy their picnic today on Bumstead Heath”.

  • haoben405
  • guardian angel

    Parasum should concentrate on reading his bible more clearly and diligently. In answer to bfc8484 he quoted a book on Our Lady written Father F.W. Faber? or whoever – an obscure priest. That book is not even available on http://www.amazon.com. That book is probably bought only in church bookshops. It will have an imprimatur showing that its teachings are orthodox. More church propaganda for you….Is Parasum saying that that book is more definitive that the bible.I must ask Parasum where in the bible its says to say the rosary? Where in the bible does it say Mary assumed into heaven? The bible was written many years after Mary died. If indeed she died and was assumed don’t you think that in Saint Paul’s letters he would have referred to that event. It would have been a highly significant event. In his travels round the region of Asia Minor he would not have hesitated to mention it in his various stiops. It would have been the most significant event of that decade.

    Parasum mite also be a lady or a nun. Ladies like saying their hail mary. They feel more comfortable praying to a lady “blessed” which they claim is like some kind of lady god.. They find it hard to pray to the JUdeo-Christian gods, the Father (yahweh) the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit (Paraclete) so its a cop out that they say their rosary to Mary. As if Mary can bestow them anything. She can’t. She does get many petitions which all she does is delegate to 3 others (trinity). The gifts of heaven are not in her possession and she has NO RIGHT there togrant them. So she delegates the petitions to the rightful department – Father (intray empty), Son (intray semi-full) Holy Spirit (intray more than empty) Meantime Mary’s intray is overflowing. She must be thinking these Catholics after centuries don’t even know how to pray to the right “person” yet they claim to have the direct line to the apostles Peter and Paul and to proclaim the absolute truths. How shameless. Don’t even know how to pray properly.

    BVM is merely “blessed”. Being “blessed” She is not even a saint – she is one level less than a saint. (Blessed is level 2 in the sainthood herarichy – which comprises venerable, then blessed then saint) She is on the same level of Blessed John Paul 2. If we assume that heaven is like an audience with Queen Elizabeth 2, then God the father and sons will be on their thrones, the holy spirit fluttering above and all the saints in the front row beginning with all the 12 apostles (except JUdas but include but Matthias) and all the saints that came after them including benedict, Dominic De Guzman, Don Bosco, Ignatius LOyola and the rest…. The saints like Peter, Paul, James etc. are seated at a higher/fronter row in heaven in a position higher than Mary. Mary is only seated further in the middle row in the excellent company of Mother Teresa and JP2, two of her strongest earthly supporters..

    bfc8484 is right. The sooner we follow the British bishops the better. The sooner will demote the rosary the more we can find UNITY with our separated brethren. No wonder JP2 said that the British bishops and Archbishops are not very “faithful” to Rome. But the British bishops are right in their reading of the bible and the gospels. Our separated brethren are also right to object to words in the hymns like “Queen of Heaven” and “Star of the Sea” ! Mary is not and will never be the Queen of Heaven! Its simple – in heaven there are no queens. Following the eartky Jewish and Islamic traditions “ladies” have no rights to rule (only in democratic countries of Europe can ladies become Queen in their own right…No where else)

    To treat Mary like a heavently queen or a demi-god or a semi-god or to use words like Co-Reedemer is just plain wrong and balmy! And the sooner we stubborn Catholics realise this the better! My guess is that Professor Jospeh Ratzinger/ Pope Benedict XVI realises this LITURGICALLY and THEOLOGICALLY but he cannot drag his Vatican curia comprising – his Italian cardinals along!

    For parasum I will only say read the bible more carefully and BELIEVE IT MORE – that is the ultimate source. Not books written by obscure preachers!

  • guardian angel

    Parasum makes many points not all of which are logical. He says the luminous mysteries was a mess. Well they were Christ centred. The problem was that they were introduced at the tail end of the last Papacy when the Pope was really sick and could not enforce his will. From 2000-2005 he hardly could comprehend what was going on. I remember when Bush the Younger ( George W) presented him with the US Medal of Freedom (for his bravery in all aspects of his life), it was a wonderful moment. The Pope smiled serenly despite all his ailments (but I felt sad, I wondered could he know what was going on and the significance of the moment?)

    You call the luminous mysteries a mess? What would you call the current two pronged approach at evangelizing and reconciliation all rolled into one namely:-
    1. Redoing the mass prayers to take us back to Pre-Vatican 2 with one eye partly so that we can appease the SSPX and “look” more conservative in their eyes and then lifting the excommunication on the SSPX (St. Pius Society) so that their bishops, clergy and seminarians will rejoin us;
    2. Creating the Anglican ordinates in various countries so that the high order Anglicans (Anglican high church) also joins us with their priests and congregations (a move one British newspaper either the Guardian or Daily Telegraph likened to “Pope Benedict has positioned his tank on Archbishop Williams turf” (meaning the Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams and trying to steal his flock)
    Although we are a long way from our Hail arys with this post I goad a reply from Parasum. What is this:-
    1. True spirituality and evangelisation or
    2. “Spiritual” advance and warfare cloaked in unity terms

    Perhaps Parasum will comment on the stealth strategy and whether it will succeed or leave an even greater mess behind? Either way it shows the German Pope’s cleverness. He learnt well the strategies of combat in the Hitler Youth. Fortunately its now applied in the spiritual and not physical sense (killing people)
     

  • guardian angel

    The bishop should be commended. He deserves a promotion for this bravery and COMPLETE understanding of scripture. Next archbishop perhaps in Birmingham or London? should a vacant seat arise? Understand there is a “big hat” vacancy in Scotland. What’s about that then, as they say in those parts? (with the Jimmy Saville accent)

  • Kim Hatton

    If the Hail Mary is removed from the bidding prayers perhaps we can take a lesson from the Tridetine mass and bring back the Leonine prayers where the Hail Mary was always said.

  • Caroline

    You are not understanding who the Blessed Virgin Mary is – and this Bishop aught to be more respectful to the Holy Mother of God. Our Lord Jesus Christ told Sr Lucia of Fatima at her Convent in Ty in 1927 – that offenses against the Holy Virgin, offend Him greatly.  

    Apostasy, Apostasy, Apostasy.  Read about what Our Lady said at Garabandal, Read what she said at Akita, read what she said to Mother Mariana of Equador.  God help this Bishop for his obvious disrespect.   As the Ark of the OLD Covenant held the “Word of God on Stone,” and the “”Manna” , – the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Ark of the NEW Covenant held within her womb the “Word of God made flesh”  the “LIVING Manna that came down from Heaven.As .David danced before the Ark, so did John the Baptist in his Mother’s womb dance before Mary the NEW Ark.   As the Ark of the OLD Covenant was viewed as so HOLY that people were struck dead who touched it – so should the Blessed Immaculate VIRGIN be viewed by Christians everywhere.  How much MORE respect and Sacred is she to be viewed than the Old Ark.This is a beautiful summary of  scriptural passages showing how the Gospel Writers (Luke specifically) viewed The Blessed Virgin as the Ark of the NEW Covenant.http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/charts/Virgin%20Mary%20as%20the%20Ark%20of%20the%20New%20Covenant.htm This Bishop should have spent more time reading and studying the Old Testament, and gained some knowledge of the Queen of the New Jerusalem.  Within the Davidic Kingdom, (Of which Christ holds Kingship for eternity!)  the position of “Gebirah” or Queen Mother was the most important person second to the King.  Bathsheba was Gebirah to Solomon.  (full list of Biblical Gebirah here) http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/charts/Institution%20of%20the%20Gebirah.htm The “Gebirah” acted as intercessor to gain a favour from the King.  The Kings subjects requested favours from her, (as WE do as Catholics ) knowing that the King (Christ) is more likely to grant His Mother’s wishes than He is ours.  That is standard Catholic teaching.  It has been taught since the first century.  If you read the above link you will understand the scriptural basis for asking for the intercession of the Holy Virgin.This passage from 1 Kings shows clearly the high position of the “Gebirah” in the Kingdom.  Even though Solomon refuses to grant the request, it is obvious that the Mother of the Davidic King has a specific role in the eyes of His subjects.1 Kings 2:13-3013 Now Adonijah, the son of Haggith, went to Bathsheba, Solomon’s mother. Bathsheba asked him, “Do you come peacefully?”He answered, “Yes, peacefully.” 14 Then he added, “I have something to say to you.”“You may say it,” she replied.15 “As you know,” he said, “the kingdom was mine. All Israel looked to me as their king. But things changed, and the kingdom has gone to my brother; for it has come to him from the Lord.16 Now I have one request to make of you. Do not refuse me.”“You may make it,” she said.17 So he continued, “Please ask King Solomon—he will not refuse you—to give me Abishag the Shunammite as my wife.”18 “Very well,” Bathsheba replied, “I will speak to the king for you.”19 When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand.20 “I have one small request to make of you,” she said. “Do not refuse me.”The king replied, “Make it, my mother; I will not refuse you.”21 So she said, “Let Abishag the Shunammite be given in marriage to your brother Adonijah.”22 King Solomon answered his mother, “Why do you request Abishag the Shunammite for Adonijah? You might as well request the kingdom for him—after all, he is my older brother —yes, for him and for Abiathar the priest and Joab son of Zeruiah!”23 Then King Solomon swore by the Lord: “May God deal with me, be it ever so severely, if Adonijah does not pay with his life for this request! 24 And now, as surely as the Lord lives—he who has established me securely on the throne of my father David and has founded a dynasty for me as he promised —Adonijah shall be put to death today!” 25 So King Solomon gave orders to Benaiah son of Jehoiada, and he struck down Adonijah and he died.2Can I suggest that ANYONE who is seeking to enter the Kingdom of God, takes the first step in that direction by ensuring that they are sensible and never commit the grave offense of insulting His Queen.  It IS Treason as it would have been in the Old Davidic Kingdom.

  • winston lewis

    Let us face facts, The hail Mary was included in the Mas (Vernacualr) after VATII. It was the likes of Conroy, Hulme and murphyb Occonner who did all in their power to supress mariona devitions  but because of 2oposoition” from the faith full inserted the Hail mary into the Mass. Wherr it has never been in any part of the chuch east or west. . having to a large part succed in removing BVM from cathoiloc devotions, how many of his parishes say the rosary in the charch? He now sees and opportunity to remove BVM from mass and again progreess the church in the direction of the 16th Centuary reformers. In raility Aurendel  and Brighton should submit to cantubary taht is where his hart lies.

  • Sszorin

    I would like to correct your error of a wish. You want the letters CE to signify “Christian Era” as opposed to “Common Era”
    CE stands for “Common Era”. 
    ChE would stand, if generally accepted, for “Christian Era”.
    If you really want the neo-satanist occult elite, the atheistic / pantheistic academia, the degenerate sodomite and libertine shock troops of the official culture and the neo-pagan masses to accept that CE means “Christian Era”, try first reversing the path of the Sun across the sky so that in the morning it would rise in the West and in the evening it would set in the East. All of those mentioned above would then pay the attention to your proposal.
    Let us continue to use BC – before Christ [after the date given] and AD – Anno Domini [before the date given].

  • ColdStanding

    When the faithful, in times past, were inspired to undertake great works, such as building a cathedral on the scale of Reims or Chartres or Notre Dame de Paris or any of the great monasteries, they first came up with a plan – correction – the accepted a plan that somebody competent drew up.  That somebody was well versed in the Catholic religion and the local customs so as to accomplish the multiple goals such an undertaking aspired to achieve.  Thank goodness they did not have to deal with comboxes (which I frequently use).  Can you imagine: “No, no, that column is too thick.”  “What are crazy?  You can’t use red in that panel of glass.”  “Argh! Who would use THAT kind of marble?”  The whole process would simply be unworkable and nothing would have gotten done. 

    Clearly they did somethings right.  Good plan, prayer, solid foundation, prayer, artistic inspiration, more prayer, theological accuracy, praise and glory to God = great and lasting beauty (save the meddling of randy monarchs!).  They all pulled together to a common goal. 

    When it comes to the mass, our coming together enact the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and pray, somebody needs to figure out how this is to be done.  That someone is not one of the sheep.  Trust the Good Shepherd!  This isn’t a democracy.  This isn’t a debating society.  This isn’t a social club.  Trust in the means which have been afforded to you for your betterment.  Have faith!  The royal road to salvation can not be eradicated, for there are innumerable resources available to act as your guide.  Lead by following well!  And for the love of all that is good and holy, be a man, pray the rosary.  

    Our bishops and priest are a treasure.  Lest you disagree, I will admit that simply saying it won’t make my claim true, but, praying that it be so will.  

  • Balds50

    Miss Caroline, sorry to disappoint you…all the apparitions may not have occurred as described or painted by the church. It might ALL have been made up just to get DEVOTION TO MARY!. If Mary was “assumed” into heaven she cannot return. The bible says clearly that Only Jesus can return on the last day. (Even Moses and Elijah can no longer return!) If Mary returned she was a false prophet and we are specifically warned against this in the bible….. Sorry to hurt you and your beliefs up to now…..

    The so called secret to “Lucy” at Fatima has been changed several times….The 3rd secret we are told was about the end of the world. Apparently Pope Paul VI fainted when he read it. Why? because the date she wrote down had passed and the world had not in fact ended. So the 3rd secret was rewritten recently to imply that it was an attack on the Pope – JP2. (the assasination attempt in 1981) You might not believe these things but the Vatican and does do them- rewrite the secrets!

    You see why I don’t believe the apparations is the problem of communication….To communicate we would need a COMMON language. Mary spoke Aramaic and maybe Hebrew. In Fatima the children understood nothing because we are told they were “illiterate” peasants” Illiterate meaning cannot read and write which also means they cannot converse either…. Also they lacked a common medium of communication. At Fatima Portuguese is spoken, did the BVM speak Portuguese you think?If she spoke Aramaic who in the Portugal of that time would have understood what she was saying? The mind boggles that you can believe something like that about apparations, secrets etc. It alll DISTRACTS from the primary message in the bible. Can we stick to the bible or return to it speedily?

  • Benedict Carter

    Interesting to see this Bishop wearing clerical dress in the photo. He normally does not, so I’ve been told. 

    These neo-Modernists can leave nothing untouched. I’m sure Our lady isn’t best pleased. 

  • Benedict Carter

    A ridiculous post, full of nonsensical assumptions, bad theology and cynicism.

  • Benedict Carter

    Just get rid of the Novus Ordo full stop and restore the real and authentic Latin Rite. 

  • Amkennedypayen

    That’s funny !

  • CM

    Two points here: The first is that the ‘Hail Mary’ is in fact a petitional prayer – ‘pray for us sinners’ and not a devotional prayer. The second point is that I, like many other Catholics, are fed up with diktats from the aristocracy of the church in Rome. We are not uneducated peasants, we are educated Christians and it is about time the hierarchy stopped treating us like idiots. Seemes to me if they don’t treat us better we should withdraw all financial support – then perhaps they will listen.

  • nytor

    Not only are they banal, they are also often used to promote a PC political agenda which should have no place.

    An example which has never gone away was on “racial justice sunday” – as “simon of cyrene was probably black and he helped to carry the cross of the Lord”. The fact that if he came from Cyrenaica then he would have been north African and therefore not black at all was obviously lost of them.

  • nytor

    Fortunately, he’s not His Grace, and hopefully he never will be!

  • nytor

    A friend of mine is fond of saying that such-and-such a candidate would make a good candidate for translation to Kabul. May I recommend Conry, if any members of the Congregation for Bishops are reading?

  • nytor

    I appreciate why you do this, but the ending I prefer is the longer one “nunc et in hora mortis nostrae”. It focuses on the moment of death. In fact, I often pray only the second part when on planes.

  • Benedict Carter

    We aren’t sola scriptura protestants, thank God. 

  • Simon Davies

    The bishop’s request is an understandable one, but it’s unrealistic, and just goes to show that some of our leaders have only one foot in reality. I agree with him: the Hail Mary should not really be a part of this particular prayer, but to say that it does not belong in the eucharistic liturgy is ridiculous. Perhaps his excellency doesn’t recite the antiphons when he offers Mass, and hasn’t noticed the proliferation of such devotional texts in the Roman Missal. Does he mean to suggest that Our Lady and the saints have no part to play in the eucharist? Shall we be expunging the litany of saints from our baptismal and ordination liturgies next?

    In reality, the Hail May is only kept alive in families through its use at Mass, not because UK families are particularly fervent in their Marian devotions at home. Far from it, though some are, obviously. Yeah, OK, it’s not what we *should* be doing at Mass, but then again, the bishop really *should* wear his zucchetto during the Mass, and preach with his mitre on, my lord. Perhaps the bishop should give a little, instead of just taking. Maybe he should encourage prayers after Mass, such as the Marian antiphons which the Church encourages, or a Hail Mary after every weekday Mass for the new evangelisation in our country. Maybe he should encourage Marian processions, and the public rosary, or, if he doesn’t like Our Lady, eucharistic processions for Corpus Christi, coming up next week, or Sunday benediction and holy hours. 

    I think his excellency should come back down to earth and stop getting hot under his pontifical dalmatic.