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Cardinal O’Brien gives his backing to idea of married priests

By on Friday, 22 February 2013

Cardinal O'Brien (Photo: PA)

Cardinal O'Brien (Photo: PA)

Cardinal Keith O’Brien, Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh, has told the BBC that he would be “very happy” if married men had the option of entering the priesthood.

The cardinal, the only churchman from Great Britain eligible to attend the conclave, said: “There was a time when priests got married, and of course we know at the present time in some branches of the Church – in some branches of the Catholic Church – priests can get married, so that is obviously not of divine origin and it could get discussed again.

“In my time there was no choice and you didn’t really consider it too much, it was part of being a priest. When I was a young boy, the priest didn’t get married and that was it.

“I would be very happy if others had the opportunity of considering whether or not they could or should get married.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/Taumpj Thomaspj Poovathinkal

     INTERPRETING “sister” as “wife”! ! ! This could suit the purpose only of those who were UNFAITHFUL to THE LORD’ CALL.

    Making a sacrifice of their conjugal rights in agreement with their husbands who were already APOSTLES of THE LORD, good women wanted a share in the ministry of the The Lord and so these joined their husbands in a sisterly spirit rather than as their wives. The initiative of these good women is quite understandable for it is observed also in most other religions  too as a sacrifice for a higher purpose.

    Thomas Poovathinkal SSP

  • Peter

    Abortion is the ultimate child abuse.  It is strange how so many “shocked” observers are quite OK with that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Taumpj Thomaspj Poovathinkal

     WHY DON’T PEOPLE intervene by WRITING TO HIGHER AUTHORITIES when SUCH PEOPLE like this Cardinal who move away from the Royal Way of the Cross of THE LORD and create unwanted and harmful  situations for THE CHURCH?

    When People intervened even by their very presence, so often the enemies of THE LORD could not harm him. GO to THE GOSPELS.

    Thomas Poovathinkal SSP

  • JabbaPapa

    You’ve seen the evidence — it’s just been deliberately presented by the secular Press so as to give the impression that heterosexual predation upon adolescents might be equivalent to the homosexual.

    Whereas if you look at the raw statistics, whilst ignoring the spin that is put on them by the pro-gay media, it is seen that 90% of ALL child sex abuse involves homosexual men and adolescent boys.

  • JabbaPapa

    What tosh !!!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PWZKI7JBARE4DDT3NQ22RWMOJE Benedict Carter

    Silly Jonathan, that’s a really silly thing to say.

    You will remember that I have supported you before now on this question. In fact, I probably go well beyond you: i would solve the problem with the help of some lamp-posts. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PWZKI7JBARE4DDT3NQ22RWMOJE Benedict Carter

    Perfectly correct Peter.

  • andrew young

    Are you actually a serving priest in a mainstream parish? If so, where?

  • andrew young

    I believe that secular priests during their ordiantion do not take a vow of celibacy but a promise of celibacy.

  • andrew young

    “If the Modernists can get clerical celibacy overturned, then they will turn their sights onto their next target – overturning Humanae Vitae……”

    I think you will find that the laity have done this very successfully already.

  • andrew young

    LOL! Good one.

  • andrew young

    “The fact that womankind of a certain eductional standard seems to have presumed for themselves a liturgical role is due to politically correct pressure from secular society and an abject retreat by most men from their religious obligations”.

    I cannot believe you have said something like this. Very revealing.

  • Scholar234

    and you don’t have to be a masterind to see what happened and who revealed documents to the Butler. The deputy Secretary of state seems to be implicated in the leak to discredit his boss Bertone.The 3 cardinal inquiry must have found evidence against him. Again the Pope rises to his defence to post him out to South America and away from the revengeful Curia. This Pope is a profoundly smart and astute and quick moving man.

  • Jonathan West

    I disagree with you on that 90% figure by the way. In terms of the Catholic abuse crisis, figures I’ve seen are more to the effect that very roughly two thirds of the reported victims are boys to one third girls. I can’t off the top of my head remember whether that figure comes from the John Jay report in America or the Murphy report in Ireland or one of the other reports in Ireland.

    It is the boys who tend to be placed in the unsupervised care of priests while the girls are more often in the care of nuns. So the figures will tend to be skewed towards male victims without there being a comparable skew towards homosexuality among the offenders. You may recall the case of Fr Kit Cunningham from a year or two ago – by all accounts cheerfully heterosexual and yet involved in the abuse of the boys at the school in Soni, Tanzania run by the Rosminians. There is not a strong correlation between the sex of the victims of child sex abuse and the sexual orientation of the abuser.

    So AlanP’s statement is based on fact and there is no reason to think of it as in any way ideological. On the other hand, there is a strong movement within the Catholic church which appears on ideological grounds to want to link child abuse to homosexuality.

    For as long as you keep trying to fit facts to theories rather than the other way round, the church will never get a grip on the abuse crisis.

  • Jonathan West

     Whataboutery

  • Peter

    Anyone who thinks abortion is a good thing is a total hypocrite when it comes to complaining about child abuse and doesn’t even merit responding to.

  • LongIslandMichael

     I think you are right.

  • LongIslandMichael

     Absolutely correct.

  • andrew young

    Contrary to your inference that I have taken face value or given credence to the statement of allegation in the press, I have not. I have not attributed a moral value nor have I elaborated on the statement other than acknowledge that certain allegations have been made. Like you, I will await the outcome of an appropriate investigation and look forward to the refutation by the Cardinal of these allegations made by four individuals.  

  • andrew young

    I read your words then goggled ‘pics of cardinal burke’.  Outside of the familial circle of my sisters and her friends, I never knew that a man could spend so much money on lace and frippery and look ridiculous.  I refer you to the close up pic of the cardinal in his cappa manga and galero. So far from looking like Christ and saving souls as you can get. Church, wake up and taste the coffee!

  • Jonathan West

    Society, through Parliament, has decided to disagree with you on this subject.

  • Jonathan West

    If Vatican II was the cause of the child sex abuse scandal, then why did abuse occur before Vatican II? The reports from Ireland make it quite clear that it did. And I know of abuse at Ealing Abbey that dates back at least to the late 1940s.

  • GFFM

    Cardinal O’Brien would do well to be quiet. He puts his foot in his mouth a lot and I do believe he may have a tough several months coming given the news breaking about him as we write these posts.

  • andrew young

    Yep. The soutane garbed, stiff collar wearing, smells and bells, lacey alb and cotta brigade, whether high anglican or trad catholic, hardly evokes images of strong male testoeroned heterosexual clergy!

  • mandylion525

    Jesus spoke, read & wrote in Hebrew. Aramaic was used only in less developed places like Northern Syria & Messoptamia  & not in the Galilee, Judea & Samaria.
    Also father is Av not Ab , it only becomes pronounced with a B  when it is in it Abba form which translates more as daddy rather than father.
    The misundertanding is the result of Greek translations of Hebrew.

  • John

    That’s certainly a creative way of explaining that verse and the word for wife is admittedly the same as that for woman, but given that “taking a woman” is a rather unnatural expression, especially compared with “taking a wife” and given this comes in a section which contains the discussion in ch7, it does seem quite unlikely. This seems to be tacitly admired given the major Catholic translations usually put wife in the main text and your explanation in a footnote.

    Still, even if you aren’t right I admire the passion with which you make your case. It is, after all a fact acknowledge by all the fathers and learned doctors of the Church that the use of caps lock and the pretends of clairvoyance with regards to other people’s motives make any argument more convincing.

  • daclamat

    My comment of a couple of hours ago has been lost in cyberspace. I had opined that that if 4 complaints had been made, we might expect forty more to crawl out of the woodwork. His eminence O’Brien was vociferously homophobic, winning him the title of Bigot of the Year. Such exagerated récriminations are often a symptom of a tormented personality condeming his own demons.  Time will tell.  In the meantime, let us take comfort that the apostolic Nuncio has congratulated the 4 complainants on their courage.
    While I’m here, I must point out that there is an amazing row going on between Georg Ganswein, the popes personal secretary,  and Clemens,the latter removed from the papal affection.  Just before he announced his resignation crafty Ratzinger appointed Georg Prefect of the Papal Household. So the new  pope will have someone running up and down the back stairs keeping his old boss informed. Forget Bertone. Ganswein is the man to  Watch. Talk about éminence grise, this is beginning to look like shades of grey.

  • daclamat

    Grow up!

  • daclamat

    As a child at Grace-Dieu 1947-1951,I can’t look at these comments with indifference. It is painful to read Carter’s views. Now Cardinal O’brien is holding centre stage. The whole ecclesiasticl set-up is rotten to the core.  Even the Holy Ghost agrees- no more vocations until this lot die out.

  • daclamat

    What in the name of heaven has this to do with O’Brien being outed?

  • daclamat

    Yes. He should have his face rubbed in it

  • daclamat

    Pity. The Borgias gave us a historical precedent.  I can’t think of any liberals touching him with a ten foot bargepole

  • liquafruta

    Alas, for him, he cast the first stone and this may have come back to haunt him. If these allegations are true then the hypocrisy of his attacks on gay Christians trying to regularise their loving relationships before Almighty God have to take one’s breath away.

  • liquafruta

    Most sexual abuse occurs within families and the abuse is perpetrated by a family member often a parent or a sibling. Those are facts.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PWZKI7JBARE4DDT3NQ22RWMOJE Benedict Carter

    Not necessarily hypocrisy at all. He may well have done it but sincerely repented and held fast since then to Catholic teaching not only in words but in behaviour. 

    It may well be otherwise. Perhaps he has always been a real liberal but hid his views for career advancement. 

    There are lots of scenarios. 

  • liquafruta

    Yes it could be so.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PWZKI7JBARE4DDT3NQ22RWMOJE Benedict Carter

    Declamat says, “His eminence O’Brien was vociferously homophobic, winning him the title of Bigot of the Year”.

    From Stonewall, an organisation of militant homosexuals whose leader, Tatchell, a veritable demon, is on record for agitating for homosexual sex with 14-year olds to be made legal. 

    ie., he wants to make legal the exact behaviour that homosexual clerical predators have (rightly) been jailed for in several countries.

    Do we hear your equal condemnation of Tatchell? 

    It is exactly the “award” given to him by Stonewall that makes me somewhat suspicious about the complaint of the four men. Stonewall is a truly wicked organisation and has used provocations against innocents before to further its aims. Remember the Christian bed & breakfast owners anyone? 

  • One Jab Up The Punjab

    does your dog bite ?

  • liquafruta

    Two bigots don’t make a right if we are evaluating “demons.”. Given what appears to be unfolding I see no difference between your view of Peter Tatchell and the alleged grim reality of Cardinal O’B.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/PWZKI7JBARE4DDT3NQ22RWMOJE Benedict Carter

    Well, teaching the Catholic Faith clearly as he did as far as homosexual “marriage” is concerned can make a man a bigot only in the eyes of the world. 

    And the world belongs to the devil.

  • scary goat

    “I cannot believe you have said something like this. Very revealing. ”

    Very revealing?……Very un-politically-correct….and very true.

    I am female, by the way, and reasonably well educated.

  • Nat_ons

    That Cardinal O’Brien is currently still the best of the bunch of the senior Catholic leaders in Britain / Ireland speaks volumes for the dearth of leadership. His personal opinions – and personal behaviour – are not matters I can offer judgement on; I do not know these, other than by way of the distorting public media. At least one media headliner is an urgent reality for the church catholic: a complete, root and branch overhaul in the moral character, intellectual formation and public expression of how rulers lead the Church.

    “Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.” 1 Tim 5 : 17.

  • AlanP

    Just a thought about the alleged “inappropriate behaviour”.  We have no more details, so why do we all jump to the conclusion that it must be something sexual?  Perhaps the Cardinal (as he now is) had a habit of jumping on to a table and doing a dance in front of his ordinands.

  • rjt1

    Pope Paul VI dealt with this question. It doesn’t have to be raised again and again.

  • rjt1

    And “Dad” means…..?

  • JabbaPapa

    Most paedophilia obeys the pattern you describe — but the sexual abuse of teenagers is not paedophilia as such. It occurs in the far wider social circles that adolescents belong to, and the vast majority of it is of a homosexual nature.

    Statutory rape, I’ll remind you, is a form of sex abuse.

    The tricks that are performed with the statistics are that heterosexuals and homosexuals are only directly compared by the pro-gay media in the specific case of paedophilia per se — but the patterns involving adolescents are nearly always glossed over, despite the fact that the VAST majority of child sex abuse is not of a paedophile nature per se — the notion of child rape is also used to exclude the consensual, but no less abusive, sexual relationships of men with adolescent boys from the statistics.

  • JabbaPapa

    figures I’ve seen are more to the effect that very roughly two thirds of
    the reported victims are boys to one third girls. I can’t off the top
    of my head remember whether that figure comes from the John Jay report
    in America or the Murphy report in Ireland or one of the other reports
    in Ireland

    Those are the figures for paedophile crimes ONLY, involving children under 12.

    Which are a minority of the cases. They are neither homosexual nor heterosexual in nature.

    Virtually all of the cases of children 12 or older are cases of homosexual men and adolescent boys.

  • teigitur

    How has he been “outed”? Do you have facts at your fingertips. Please share.

  • teigitur

    We do not even know what the allegations are yet. Lots of knees getting exercise around here.

  • liquafruta

    Well I’m not sure that I am any the wiser after reading that but the problem of sexual abuse and the resultant endemic covering it up in our church has to be faced as has the issue of those in the hierarchy who preach one thing and do another.