Sat 1st Nov 2014 | Last updated: Fri 31st Oct 2014 at 16:19pm

Facebook Logo Twitter Logo RSS Logo

Latest News

Ireland: abortion legislaton is passed

By on Friday, 12 July 2013

Prime Minister Enda Kenny (Virginia Mayo/AP/Press Association Images)

Prime Minister Enda Kenny (Virginia Mayo/AP/Press Association Images)

The Irish Government has passed legislation allowing abortion in the country where the mother is at risk of suicide, in what is perhaps the biggest ever set back for the pro-life movement.

Only five TDs voted against the Government as the Dail voted 127 to 31 in favour of the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill, which would allow abortion if a woman was thought to be at risk from suicide.

Lucinda Creighton, the minister for European Affairs, was the highest profile rebel, and now faces being expelled from the ruling Fine Gael Party.

The Bill allows an expectant mother to seek an abortion on the grounds that she is prepared to take her own life, which many fear will lead to abortion on demand.

At present abortion is available in Ireland only where the mother’s life is at risk, and Prime Minister Enda Kenny said the law would bring “medical clarity and legal certainty for the women of our country”.

An amendment proposed by rebel Fine Gael TD Billy Timmins to remove the suicide clause from the legislation was supported by Miss Creighton, who had refused to support the rule and called for alternative therapies to be offered instead, but the demand were ignored.

She said: “I’m very sad. But at the same time I feel a bit relieved because this is obviously something that’s been weighing on everybody’s minds for months and months.

“It’s no exaggeration to say, I think, an awful lot of people have really struggled to make a decision on how they would vote in this legislation.”

Sinn Féin TD Peadar Toibín also voted against the Bill, which was supported by his party

  • $20596475

    If the purpose was to discourage people from having the procedure then ethically it would not meet the standards required by the TV company making a determination on whether to show a medical procedure.

    TV companies are not vehicles for campaign groups.

  • http://profiles.google.com/liamronan49 Liam Ronan

    “TV companies are not vehicles for campaign groups.”
    No. Of course not, Polyanna.

  • http://profiles.google.com/liamronan49 Liam Ronan

    AH! The old “some of my best friends are (fill in space)”.

  • http://profiles.google.com/liamronan49 Liam Ronan

    Sorry bluesuede. I thought you wrote ‘musty place’.

  • http://profiles.google.com/liamronan49 Liam Ronan

    Thank you, Comrad.

  • bluesuede

    That too:)

  • bluesuede

    You’re last sentence explains the other three. You must be referring to majorcalamity. He thrives in the hope of driving a wedge with people away from the Church they were brought up in. He might mean well, and I hope he does see the light of truth someday, but he is in error, but that could change.

  • bluesuede

    Yes, they are vehicles for special interest groups. When TV companies want to show surgical operations of any kind, they just do it, they don’t have to consult their short list of “standards”.

  • bluesuede

    No, it’s completely true.
    You shouldn’t get all of your news from the World Socialist Web Site.

  • http://jabbapapa.wordpress.com/ Julian Lord

    Who is suggesting that they are “forbidden”? Not me for sure

    One day, maybe, you might have the courage to actually *defend* your positions, instead of carrying on with this systematic denialism whensoever they are challenged.

    You CANNOT expect to be taken seriously when on the one hand you rant on and on and ON about how the Catholic Church should be denied ANY and ALL say in political discourse (though undoubtedly you’ll just up and deny this, too), and on the other hand that you do not wish to forbid political action by interest groups.

    Your “position” is utterly preposterous.

    You know — “I’m not an anti-Catholic, some of my best friends are Catholics !!!” ; hmmmmm, now where have I heard that one before ; it sounds awfully familiar …

  • http://jabbapapa.wordpress.com/ Julian Lord

    Yes Comrade, and soon the downtrodden proletarian masses will rise up and cast away the shackles of their imperialist top-hatted masters, and bring freedom, prosperity, abortion, and the glory of Progress to their shopping carts filled to the brim with a veritable cornucopia of home-grown consumer produce !!!

  • $20596475

    You just twist my arguments and then dismiss them. I won’t defend what I don’t say. I do when they are engaged.

    Catholics should not be denied political discourse. The Church should. Understand my point? No, I didn’t think so!

    No I am not “anti-Catholic”. As you though seem to want to impose your own definition of what a “Catholic” is that we disagree is hardly surprising. You have insulted Lord Patten, and accused him of many things, including not being Catholic. I find that he is and that he is a Trustee of another major Catholic publication. No doubt you will next deny that this publication isn’t Catholic.

  • $20596475

    They would not show any procedure that sought to discourage a patient from undertaking it. They would show a procedure to explain how it is done technically, it’s safety and it’s success. The purpose is to reassure and educate, not to emotionally blackmail.

    To use a broadcast to promote a particular view, such as the “pro-life” agenda is indeed a subjective approach.

    Your view on this is blinded by your passionate belief in the truth of your opinion. Broadcasters have to separate themselves from this, even if they personally support you, and be more objective.

  • $20596475

    Don’t be silly. I have no more love for socialism than I suspect you do. I am a firm supporter of democracy and capitalism.

  • $20596475

    There are TV channels which are vehicles for special interest groups. I almost never watch them, especially the religious ones. In the Philippines there are many Catholic channels pouring out their distorted views to the masses 24/7.

    I am not speaking of these. I am speaking of public service broadcasters, such as the BBC.

  • $20596475

    I don’t. Much of my information comes from personal observation as I have spent more time there in the last 5 years than the UK. I read the newspapers there, I watch TV and I talk to people.

    I don’t read any socialist sites, unless I seek information on their activities.

  • http://profiles.google.com/liamronan49 Liam Ronan

    So they don’t show any cosmetic surgery procedures that have gone awry or which are being unethically foisted on the public, etc.?

  • $20596475

    Of course they do but there is a essential difference. In such cases there is no dispute that such activities are undesirable and people need to be informed of them.

    That is not the same with the abortion issue.

  • http://jabbapapa.wordpress.com/ Julian Lord

    Catholic channels pouring out their distorted views

    Good old non-anti-Catholicism, eh ?

  • http://jabbapapa.wordpress.com/ Julian Lord

    To use a broadcast to promote a particular view … is indeed a subjective approach.

    Funny how you don’t apply this rule to your own particular subjectivity, eh ?

  • http://jabbapapa.wordpress.com/ Julian Lord

    Catholics should not be denied political discourse. The Church should.

    This is a logical paradox.

    Catholics and the Church are one and the same.

    I am not “anti-Catholic”

    Of course you are.

    your own definition of what a “Catholic” is

    This attempt to impose your relativism on the discourse is extremely feeble.

    In reality YOUR personal definition of “Catholic” is incoherent with reality.

    Please consult 3000+ years of teachings that disagree with your own personal prejudice.

    You have insulted Lord Patten

    Is Freemasonry illegal in the UK ?

    How then can it be possible to “insult” anyone by accurately describing his Masonic affiliations, or by pointing out that affiliation with Freemasonry incurs the penalty of automatic excommunication latae sententiae ?

  • http://jabbapapa.wordpress.com/ Julian Lord

    my information comes from personal observation

    Of course, “anecdotal” “evidence” is suddenly super reliable just as soon as it is proposed by an atheist !!!

  • bluesuede

    Private, you remind me of a used car salesman. No matter how broken a car is and breaks down all the time, you still try to talk the customer into buying it by telling him it’s as good as a new one because it has all 4 tires and there’s gas in the tank.

  • http://jabbapapa.wordpress.com/ Julian Lord

    He seems to be floating within some sort of delusion whereby my overt refusal of his anti-Catholic suggestions are just a “minority” view.

  • bluesuede

    A Catholic-Freemason, is a contradiction in every way.
    We can’t serve two masters at the same time. Got to hate the one and love the other.

    Freemasons are a secret society,(that’s against Catholic teaching) Freemasons are dedicated to the destruction of the Catholic Church (according to their founders) Freemasons believe that the “light bearer” is their god (pagan,idolatry,Satan worship). Can’t worship God and the devil at the same time.

    The way the Private sees this, reminds me of someone with an empty bank account but still has checks and so he thinks, “There must be money in the account, because I still have all these checks”! Because a person is or says they’re Catholic, doesn’t mean diddly- squat.

  • $20596475

    Typical reply from you. Pick just one phrase, ignore everything else, and then base your whole conclusion upon it.

    It is this tendency which makes all of your conclusions super unreliable.

  • $20596475

    “Catholics and the Church are one and the same”
    Of course they are not. Such a confusion exists only in the minds of people like you.

    Catholics are much individuals as anyone else. They as individuals have the right to participate in the political process. No organisation to which they belong, in this case their Church, has that right. The only ones to speak for anyone are our democratically elected representatives.

    I find it very ironic that I am arguing for a restoration of morality in politics, through the suppression of the influence of every type of pressure or interest group, and you seek to defend them, saying their involvement is inevitable, desirable and healthy (paraphrased). Can you see that you are actually arguing for relativism?

    Surely it must be obvious to you that there is a divide between at least two groups of Catholics, who see different paths for their faith. You dismiss the others as not being Catholic at all, but I don’t. I find their approach persuasive and attractive. No prejudice involved, just reasoning.

    You said some pretty hard things about Lord Patten, when it is not even known if he is actually a Mason, but certainly describes himself as a Catholic. If that isn’t insulting then your idea of insult does not match mine. Without proof what you wrote borders on libel.

  • $20596475

    All our views can become subjective from time to time, when past experience begins to influence our reactions. That, I guess, applies to me too, although I do try to stay focused on real issues and respond objectively.

    However I won’t take lessons from you, or from any faith based reasoning on this. Faith based reasoning is entirely subjective.

  • $20596475

    If you watched these channels even you would have to agree that their views are distorted. There is some disgraceful black propaganda put out, designed to frighten and control the people. There simply isn’t the broadcasting regulation that we enjoy in the UK and people can say pretty much whatever they like.

    This isn’t anti-Catholic at all. It is pro-truth. I thought you were fond of the “Truth”. Pity you cannot accept it when it is shown to you!

  • $20596475

    I cannot for the life of me see why! When I was a salesman (which I was for many years) I was entirely ethical and would never sell anyone a bad deal. That is not selling, it is confidence trickery. Good selling is finding out what the customer needs and then trying to provide it to him. When done properly it is an honourable profession.

    The Church strikes me much more as being akin to the confidence trickery type of selling described. Selling promises which cannot actually be backed up.

  • http://jabbapapa.wordpress.com/ Julian Lord

    All our views can become subjective from time to time, when past experience begins to influence our reactions. That, I guess, applies to me too, although I do try to stay focused on real issues and respond objectively.

    However I won’t take lessons from you, or from any faith based reasoning on this. Faith based reasoning is entirely subjective.

    Thank you for this great example of utter incoherence.

  • http://jabbapapa.wordpress.com/ Julian Lord

    “Catholics and the Church are one and the same”
    Of course they are not

    Right — in other words, Catholics and the Catholic Church obey your own prejudiced notions, rather than defining themselves ???

    Your double standards are Godzilla-like in size.

  • $20596475

    No, my thanks are due to you for confirming your inability to contemplate, let alone understand, any concept which does not originate from within your own restricted sphere.

  • $20596475

    I am not defining anything. It is completely self evident and does not need a definition from either of us.

    Individuals are individuals. Organisations are organisations. One is a member of the other. They are not one and the same.

    Your ability to regard simple statements of act as a “double standard”, just because it doesn’t fit your desired position is enormous. (simple language to replace “Godzilla”)

  • bluesuede

    I don’t get mad at you because you don’t have the light of faith or grace. It’s what makes it easy for us to believe. We can see more easily the deceits of the devil that blind you to the truth.
    You are anti-Catholic, and I attribute that to your lack of the true faith and its graces, so you can’t see the truth or you don’t want to.

    Catholics are held responsible for what they do with the gift of faith they’ve been given. But you, are obligated to search for the truth.
    It’s like a pearl of great price hidden in a field and if you wanted the pearl very much, you would go and try to buy that field just to get that pearl.